Sheikh Mo and Bernardini - Page 7

Cannon Shell · #**121** 10-13-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewashington

Track records don't. Two track records though do. The 10f at Churchill and the 12f and Belmont. You take down Secretariat's record in either and it is a marketers dream. Bernardini is likely to be $250K with a win. Taking down Secretariat's track record though could get them $300K. Not bad for a freshman. Being an AP Indy/Cara Rafaela doesn't hurt though. The best racehorse in decades combined with the best breeding out there is going to fill his book at any cost.

Who are you marketing to? There is a very select number of people that play in that area code and one of them(coolmore) aint buying.

#**122** 10-13-2006, 08:39 PM

A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A964958260

I just wonder, did anyone complain as much when AP Indy retired?

#**123** 10-13-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostCritic

A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A964958260

I just wonder, did anyone complain as much when AP Indy retired?

Of course.

#**124** 10-13-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewashington

I am sure you know much more about me than that side of the business.

The game is about risk management in the first two years. Bernardini with is pedigree, conformation, and race record makes him what people in the business term a can't miss. Perhaps more importantly, a horse with the perfect pedigree, conformation and race record attracts the best mares.

If you could, please give me the name of a horse with Bernardini's pedigree, conformation, and race record that was a failure. I would love for you to find me one. Heck, I would love for you to find me one that has ever existed.

Citation ... Coaltown ... Hill Prince ... Iron Liege ... Tim Tam ... Nadir ... Sword Dancer ... Bald Eagle ... Crimson Satan ... Jaipur ... Ridan ... Never Bend ... Bold Lad ... Successor ... Dr. Fager ... Vitriolic ... Arts And Letters ... Personality ... Riva Ridge ... Ack Ack ... Sham ... Wajima ... Bold Forbes ... Youth ... Affirmed ... Spectacular Bid ... Lord Avie ... Temperence Hill ... Conquistador Cielo ... Devil's Bag ... Chief's Crown ... Spend A Buck ... Vanlandingham ... Turkoman ... Smile ... Alysheba ... Ferdinand ... Groovy ... Easy Goer ... Risen Star ... Rhythm ... Blushing John ... Steinlen ...Fly So Free ... Criminal Type ... Housebuster ... Arazi ... Hansel ... Black Tie Affair ... Gilded Time ... Pleasant Tap ... Rubiano ... Dehere ... Bertrando ... Timber Country ... Holy Bull ... Cigar ... Skip Away ... Lit De Justice ... Favorite Trick ... Silver Charm ... Free House ... Answer Lively ... Real Quiet ... Victory Gallop ... Artax ...

Would you like a few more, "Georgie"?

todko · #**125** 10-13-2006, 10:17 PM

Let them retire this horse. Who cares? It's their horse -- and if they want to send him to stud so be it.

Ask yourself the question . . . right now . . . how much money are you going to make by betting on Bernardini? At 1-9?

Racing survived long before Bernardini. And it will survive long after Bernardini.

Some of you sound like a love stricken high school cheeleader. Maybe you have a picture of Bernardini inside your locker or something. Grow up.

Frankly, I think he's a big hype job anyway.

repent · #**126** 10-14-2006, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

They should make a Kentucky derby and Triple Crown part II for 4yo's to keep the good ones around!

they do.

Its called the Whitney, Woodward, and Jockey Club Gold Cup.

if winning a Grade 1 at Saratoga or at the Fall Championship meet is not enough for an owner to keep a horse in training as a 4YO, no race will.

on the west coast, theres the the triple that Lava Man accomplished this year.

Repent

repent · #**127** 10-14-2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostCritic

A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A964958260

I just wonder, did anyone complain as much when AP Indy retired?

well,
Ap Indy had his soundness issues from what I remember(I was kind of young).
Im not aware of any health problems Bern has had.

Repent

Betsy · #**128** 10-14-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repent

well,
Ap Indy had his soundness issues from what I remember(I was kind of young).
Im not aware of any health problems Bern has had.

Repent

The only problems Indy had were the quarter crack issue that kept him from running in the Derby. Once that was patched up and taken care of, he didn't have any problems thereafter. I was very annoyed, though not surprised, about his retirement - I was just glad he was staying in the US. As his owner was Japanese, I thought maybe he'd be sent to stud there.

There is no excuse for Bernardini's retirement - the horse is as sound as a dollar and has so much to give on the racetrack. There are no words in the English language to describe how I feel about what the Sheikh is doing.

Pedigree Ann · #**129** 10-14-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I would say this might be the knockout punch. Good work BB.

As posted elsewhere, I find this list totally absurd. Many of the horses listed have been successful sires, while others had physical handicaps to sire success (low or non-existent fertility) and yet others are too young to make any judgement about. Many of them were not as fashionably bred as Bernardini and were not expected to become top level sires as a consequence. I am astonished that you accept Mr. BB's statement so uncritically.

georgewashington · #**130** 10-14-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

As I have stated in another post as well. I do not completely agree with everything BB put in the post. Yeah his list was overdone, as usual, because he was trying to make a point. But as a whole I think the post served it's purpose, which was to show, race record, and promise in the shed does not equal success. Look it's not a personal thing, I have had many a run in with BB, but I do agree with the premise of what he is saying. Not trying to astonish you, but I happen to think it's a little premature to call a horse can't miss at stud. I'm about as big a Bernardini fan as there is, but as you know, probably better than anyone on here, sometimes it just doesn't work, for various reasons.

Let's see, a person in the industry, and Pedigree Ann's opinion (who in my opinion really knows her stuff) against Bold Brooklynite and DaHoss.

That is a tough one.

You being the expert DaHoss, please tell me which horse on that list has the pedigree, race record, and conformation of Bernardini? Not to mention, about 1/2 of those horses did quite well in the shed.

Do you know what risk management means?

somerfrost · #**131** 10-14-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

As posted elsewhere, I find this list totally absurd. Many of the horses listed have been successful sires, while others had physical handicaps to sire success (low or non-existent fertility) and yet others are too young to make any judgement about. Many of them were not as fashionably bred as Bernardini and were not expected to become top level sires as a consequence. I am astonished that you accept Mr. BB's statement so uncritically.

Nobody can see the future, Risen Star for example was poorly managed (on and off the track) and died way early...but who is to say what the future holds for Bernardini? I have a problem with a few on his list but most certainly did not meet expectations...Ack Ack is one that I think did fine, CDR and the sire of my all time favorite horse/stallion Broad Brush...there are those who call Secretariat a "failure" at stud because the expectations were that he would reproduce himself (well...duh!), with Star and the Iron Lady to his credit, a huge influence on the mare side and solid CDR credentials, I think he was successful...it's how does one define "success"? The thing is that with his breeding and track success, Bernardini will have every opportunity to succeed, he will immediately be booked to the best mares and the Godolphin crowd will make every effort to convert him to their foundation dirt sire...but memories of Dubai Millenium do linger...bottom line: I like his chances but I wouldn't bet the ranch!

georgewashington · #**132** 10-14-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Two track records!!! And who in the KY breeding business will be happy to see that except the people at Darley?

Yes, Darley owns all the mares he will breed with and stallions fees going up only helps Darley. There are no pinhookers in the business and there the people like Fasig Tipton do their job for free. Sales prices going up help nobody but Darley. If Bernardini gets $300K do you think AP Indy is going to not go up?

Dunbar · #**133** 10-14-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostCritic

A.P. Indy Retires At the Age of 3

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A964958260

I just wonder, did anyone complain as much when AP Indy retired?

Yep, I was ticked at that. I've also never been a fan of Hanc-ock (had to hyphenate, or it wouldn't print the second syllable!) since he retired Forty-Niner as a 3-yr-old. You can imagine how heart-broken I was that Forty-Niner was no factor in his last race, the BC Classic. (he took a bad step, according to Julie Krone, but his retirement had already been announced.) But at least Forty-Niner ran 19 times in his career, 13 times as a 3-yr-old. That looks pretty good in comparison to the horses being whisked off today.

--Dunbar

#**134** 10-14-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Ack Ack is one that I think did fine, CDR and the sire of my all time favorite horse/stallion Broad Brush...there are those who call Secretariat a "failure" at stud because the expectations were that he would reproduce himself (well...duh!), with Star and the Iron Lady to his credit, a huge influence on the mare side and solid CDR credentials, I think he was successful...it's how does one define "success"?

You're correct about Ack Ack ... his line still exists ... and ...

... you'll note that Secretariat was not on the list as a failure ... though he was a disappointment ... and his male line is totally dead.

Downthestretch55 · #**135** 10-14-2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

wow - shows how well you take criticism. I happen to think Pedigree Ann adds a lot to the content of this board, and just because she proved you wrong with a few of those horses that you listed is no reason to call names.

Is there a question as to why I no longer respond to this trolls posts?
All he/she brings to this board are insults and arrogance.
There are two others that I don't respond to also.
Waste of time.
Calling names of winners is a whole lot different than calling names at posters.
Frankly, I've had enough of them.
They just spread their manure all over this board.

Downthestretch55 · #**136** 10-14-2006, 11:42 AM

See what I mean about names and insults?
Where's a race pick in a current race?
Pathetic!

Cannon Shell · #**137** 10-14-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewashington

Yes, Darley owns all the mares he will breed with and stallions fees going up only helps Darley. There are no pinhookers in the business and there the people like Fasig Tipton do their job for free. Sales prices going up help nobody but Darley. If Bernardini gets $300K do you think AP Indy is going to not go up?

I'm sure if you own a mare that you'll want to pay MORE for the stud fee!!! Paying more makes it HARDER to pinhook, who gives a damn what the people at Fasig Tipton do, and sale prices going up hurts the racing industry.
I'm sure that AP Indy wont go up no matter what Bernardini does or gets.

Antitrust32 · #**138** 10-14-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Is there a question as to why I no longer respond to this trolls posts?
All he/she brings to this board are insults and arrogance.
There are two others that I don't respond to also.
Waste of time.
Calling names of winners is a whole lot different than calling names at posters.
Frankly, I've had enough of them.
They just spread their manure all over this board.

I agree. everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. Its fun to dispute opinions, but when names are being called then you dont want to stay around to dispute more opinions... it ruins the threads.

ArlJim78 · #**139** 11-27-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewashington

It is inevitable. He is significantly better than any horse running today. Track surface will mean nothing either. He can win in anything. Many in breeding business in KY believe he is the best horse and the best stallion prospect they have ever seen. I tend to agree. As a son of AP Indy, he is peaking right when he was expected to peak. This BC Classic will not be competitive. It will be no more competitive than any of his races, even if George Washington and David Junior take to the dirt.

You guys who dislike the trainer and the owners need to learn that horses don't know who their trainers and owners are. They are animals and the fastest ones win.

GW on Bernardini. I guess he talked to the wrong insiders for this information

ArlJim78 · #**140** 11-27-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewashington

This track record will. He will be "better than Secretariat". There are a lot of people in this business that really don't care if the fee is even $100K higher. If they want to breed to the horse they will. This one is like AP Indy. A can't miss.

A charter member of the Bernardinians.
Track record, Better than Secretariat, A can't miss?

Does Rex Reed right your material?