kip devile 9/2 vs. showing up 6/1

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Gander

"I guess I can have an opinion. Last I checked he has been caught before. Once you get caught you have to live with it. I just don't trust NY racing in general."


Why is this such a popular opinion among horse racing fans? To be honest I am not in the game nor will I ever be, just a gambler and a fan. NY easily has the best racing consistently throughout the year. I find racing at Churchill horribly boring outside Derby & Oaks week, racing in California except for Santa Anita an utter mess, and use to like Gulfstream but that has gone down the tubes except for a few big Saturdays early in the meet.

People cheat everywhere. Its not exclusive to NY. Look at all the stuff thats gone down in Southern Cal over the past couple years.

I agree the cheating goes on everywhere. But the NY scandals are a tough pill to swallow. The jockey weights scandal really annoyed me. This type of stuff is rampant in NY and they catch someone once in a while to make it look like they are doing something. Fact is the betting pools are the largest in NY so that is where the most corruption exists. In NY you can hide money really easily in those pools.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Frankel trained Wild Desert when he won the Queen's Plate ( over probably the worst field in history in that race ).

I know he was the trainer of record but Frankel admitted that he had never seen the horse and that Rudy did all the work.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I know he was the trainer of record but Frankel admitted that he had never seen the horse and that Rudy did all the work.

Have you ever admitted you were wrong in your life?

[blackthroatedwind]

If you pretend that the supposed " jockey weight scandal " was anything more than a political hack looking to garner headlines then you either didn't read through the report or are blind to common sense. Claiming that horses are carrying incorrect weights because they are scheduled to carry 117 and weigh in at 122 after a race is inaccuarate and reflects a complete lack of understanding of the rules of racing. Those politically motivated charges were nothing more than another attempt by Spitzer to use NYRA to gain headlines for himself.

There is no bigger problem in Thoroughbred racing than the rampant use of illegal, and undetectable medications, but at least NY started the detention barn to try and do something. Yeah, racetracks and racing in general aren't doing nearly enough, but singling NY out defies logic.

Originally Posted by Exceller

I guess I can have an opinion. Last I checked he has been caught before. Once you get caught you have to live with it. I just don't trust NY racing in general.

Caught? Hey buddy boy MR West Point Cheerleader. I guess that Violette is A CHEATER WHO HAS BEEN CAUGHT AND JUST HAS TO LIVE WITH IT AS WELL HUH? he did 10 days last year for an overage, just about the same overage and category as Rick's. LOL!! What now mouth? Does your reputable stable employ cheaters?
Answer is no they don't. Both Violtette's and Dutrow had overages of permissibel medications. Thats not cheating or doping. Cause if it is then I don't know how you can do business with people who do business with cheaters. Its nonsense to call Violette or Dutrwo cheaters. If you do that you can add Asmussen, Zito, Mott, etc to the list. They all did supsensions for overages of legal drugs.
You really ought to study up if you wanna hold your own in a debate about racing matters with me for longer than 10 seconds.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Exceller

Have you ever admitted you were wrong in your life?

He has, actually.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If you pretend that the supposed " jockey weight scandal " was anything more than a political hack looking to garner headlines then you either didn't read through the report or are blind to common sense. Claiming that horses are carrying incorrect weights because they are scheduled to carry 117 and weigh in at 122 after a race is inaccuarate and reflects a complete lack of understanding of the rules of racing. Those politically motivated charges were nothing more than another attempt by Spitzer to use NYRA to gain headlines for himself.

There is no bigger problem in Thoroughbred racing than the rampant use of illegal, and undetectable medications, but at least NY started the detention barn to try and do something. Yeah, racetracks and racing in general aren't doing nearly enough, but singling NY out defies logic.

NY has the most money therefore the most corruption. Just like everything else. I have read everything about NYRA and it is a cesspool of corruption. I refuse to even argue about it anymore. Facts are Facts.

Originally Posted by Exceller

NY has the most money therefore the most corruption. Just like everything else. I have read everything about NYRA and it is a cesspool of corruption. I refuse to even argue about it anymore. Facts are Facts.

Yeah ok sure. From the confines of your home 800 miles away you have the inside scoop on everything that is NYRA. Great.

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/press_releases/PRSep72000.htm

Hey Exceller, didn't you say Craig Dollase is the guy who trains your horses?
Have a nice read.

Originally Posted by oracle80

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/press_releases/PRSep72000.htm

Hey Exceller, didn't you say Craig Dollase is the guy who trains your horses?
Have a nice read.

By the way Exceller, thats called a knockout punch that I just threw.

And Dollase's just like Dutrow's Violette's, Motts, Zito's and Asmussens was just an overage of perfectly legal medication that lingered in the system or was the fault of a negligent vet who didn't stop using it at the cutoff time. Thats not cheating, thats called an error.
I don't think Dollase is a cheater either. But hey, you are the one with the high ethical ground here. Will you be asking to have your horses moved?

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

By the way Exceller, thats called a knockout punch that I just threw.

Yeah, he trains MY horses, with MY money. I don't choose the trainer though because I wouldn't choose him. Too bad you can't put together money to buy your own horse or even use your own money to gamble. Whats the problem the welfare check too small? The 40K that I invested in my two horses this year is probably more than you see in a lifetime. Are you the horse agent that got 5% for Wonder Lady horse you bought. What did that come to $500? That is the knockout my friend.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Caught? Hey buddy boy MR West Point Cheerleader. I guess that Violette is A CHEATER WHO HAS BEEN CAUGHT AND JUST HAS TO LIVE WITH IT AS WELL HUH? he did 10 days last year for an overage, just about the same overage and category as Rick's. LOL!! What now mouth? Does your reputable stable employ cheaters?
Answer is no they don't. Both Violtette's and Dutrow had overages of permissibel medications. Thats not cheating or doping. Cause if it is then I don't know how you can do business with people who do business with cheaters. Its nonsense to call Violette or Dutrwo cheaters. If you do that you can add Asmussen, Zito, Mott, etc to the list. They all did supsensions for overages of legal drugs.
You really ought to study up if you wanna hold your own in a debate about racing matters with me for longer than 10 seconds.

That would be West Point Owner to you. You are the Dutrow cheerleader last I checked. Too bad you root for horses you don't own. Must be exciting when the give out the checks and you get nothing. LOL.

Originally Posted by Exceller

Yeah, he trains MY horses, with MY money. I don't choose the trainer though because I wouldn't choose him. Too bad you can't put together money to buy your own horse or even use your own money to gamble. Whats the problem the welfare check too small? The 40K that I invested in my two horses this year is probably more than you see in a lifetime. Are you the horse agent that got 5% for Wonder Lady horse you bought. What did that come to $500? That is the knockout my friend.

It was quite a bit more substantial than that!
By the way, I noted the anger and avoidance of the issues that I raised. Thats to be expected I guess when you have been destroyed in a debate.

Look here is the point, I'm not here bashing your trainers. I think every guy associated with your stable is a good trainer and I certainly wouldnt call them cheaters. Kiarin, Stewart, Dollase, Violette(who is just fantastic and one of my favorite trainers alive), are all excellent trainers. I'm not sure that you should be tossing stones and making accusations of cheating against other trainers and using a basis on which to make that accusation a basis on which you are then accusing your own trainers of being cheaters. Don't screw with Rick, unless you wanna post something that is in fact true. I imagine you would defend your friends and trainers with the same zeal that I am. And I every much doubt that your associates in your stable would much like to know that you are tossing out labels on trainers that would condemn theirs in the process. Have a great day.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

It was quite a bit more substantial than that!
By the way, I noted the anger and avoidance of the issues that I raised. Thats to be expected I guess when you have been destroyed in a debate.

Look here is the point, I'm not here bashing your trainers. I think every guy associated with your stable is a good trainer and I certainly wouldnt call them cheaters. Kiarin, Stewart, Dollase, Violette(who is just fantastic and one of my favorite trainers alive), are all excellent trainers. I'm not sure that you should be tossing stones and making accusations of cheating against other trainers and using a basis on which to make that accusation a basis on which you are then accusing your own trainers of being cheaters. Don't screw with Rick, unless you wanna post something that is in fact true. I imagine you would defend your friends and trainers with the same zeal that I am. And I every much doubt that your associates in your stable would much like to know that you are tossing out labels on trainers that would condemn theirs in the process. Have a great day.

I can find out in 10 minutes what you paid for the horse and I know the cut guys like you get. I doubt that horse went for more than $20K when you bought her. I can post anything I want about Dutrow. I said nothing more than is said all throughout the racing world. Everyone knows Dutrows vet is the miracle Dr. and I don't think changing barns makes a major improvement without something from Dr. A. Good for Dutrow, but bad for horses.

Originally Posted by Exceller

I can find out in 10 minutes what you paid for the horse and I know the cut guys like you get. I doubt that horse went for more than $20K when you bought her. I can post anything I want about Dutrow. I said nothing more than is said all throughout the racing world. Everyone knows Dutrows vet is the miracle Dr. and I don't think changing barns makes a major improvement without something from Dr. A. Good for Dutrow, but bad for horses.

20K? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

20K? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry $200K, which makes your cut 10K. Yippee. You are rich.

You have attempted to draw away attention from the very issue that raised. I will ask you again, using Dutrows overages of permissiblke medications as a basis to call him a cheater, would that not mkae your trainer a cheater as well?
Because my stance is that neither is. I'm waiting to hear your thoughts.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Exceller

Sorry $200K, which makes your cut 10K. Yippee. You are rich.

Two to argue...

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You have attempted to draw away attention from the very issue that raised. I will ask you again, using Dutrows overages of permissiblke medications as a basis to call him a cheater, would that not mkae your trainer a cheater as well?
Because my stance is that neither is. I'm waiting to hear your thoughts.

I think I am just going to ignore you. You win every conversation because you are just too bright for me.