BC Stunner: 2 days, 3 new races..

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Be happy that no matter what the conditions of the new races are at least the Breeders Cup Ltd is spending money on races instead of paying big $ salaries to a bunch of buffoons like Tim Smith

Greg Avioli?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Greg Avioli?

When BC/NTRA 'merged' the amount of people that had big salaries that did nothing rivaled NYCOTB

[hi_im_god]

Steve-

When you get anyone involved on the show can you ask why they announced this the day of the college football championship game?

Not that it would have got a lot of mainstream sports press anyway but if they want the story buried they sure picked the right day. I guess we can be thankful they didn't wait for the Superbowl.

Great news but what stopped them from waiting for a slow news day?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

When BC/NTRA 'merged' the amount of people that had big salaries that did nothing rivaled NYCOTB

Look no further than a certain ex-N.....ah you get the drift.

[Hwjb]

Still no Breeders' Cup Staying event over 16-20f....come on, at least give us Euros a race we can't lose!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Still no Breeders' Cup Staying event over 16-20f....come on, at least give us Euros a race we can't lose!!

i'd like to see a two-miler on turf. not holding my breath tho.

and they need to show the bc steeplechase replay during one of the breaks between races.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Still no Breeders' Cup Staying event over 16-20f....come on, at least give us Euros a race we can't lose!!

They already gave you the BC Turf and now they are adding the BC Juvenile Turf. That's two races you can't lose.

Originally Posted by cmorioles

And how exactly did that turn out?

That's besides the point.
Klassy Briefcase was at the tail end of her racing career.
But at 5 panels on American soil with a decent post position,
I'd give her a good chance to be competive with the European boys and girls.

Suffice it to say, that when she was right, she was very good.

As for the Juvenile Turf idea, that's just plain ridiculous.
One that only figures to exacerbate the problems of Juveniles
being asked to go longer than then they should be -
now at an even earlier stage in their careers.

Lots of luck in trying to dole out perhaps several 2 year olds,
not only trying the turf for the first time,
but perhaps going two turns also in this same event.

This is an addition of what will be likely utterly contentious race
in which the serial wager fans will be forced to spread out needlessly.
A Pass for me.

[cmorioles]

It was more a case of her needing Lasix then being out of form. She went there in top form actually if I remember right.

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by JJP

And he would've found a way to run second. Didn't seem to matter if it was a Grade 1 or a classified allowance, somebody always had to finish in front of him.

You must not remember his 5 yr old Eclipse Award winning year. No doubt he ran 2nd alot his 3 and 4 year old year(11 times from 16 starts), but he certainly didn't have that problem his 5 yr old year when he won 5 of 8 starts.

[MaTH716]

I really think that the two day format is a bad idea. I think it is even a worst idea to roll this new format out at Monmouth Park this year. From what I understand there will be no walk up admission to Monmouth on Breeders Cup day. So what will the story be on Friday? Are some of the Monmouth loyalist going to be shut out on Friday also? What will the cost of the tickets be? Are people (besides the die hards) going to take the day off to go to the Breeders Cup? I do not think that this is good for the fans. Why not just make Saturday an even bigger and better day of racing. My guess is that they are going to charge people alot of money to see 3 races that they are going to call Breeders Cup races. What's going to be on the rest of the Friday card? The usual 5000 claiming races. I don't like the idea, but if they are going to go thorugh with it then need to try this new format at a place like Belmont or Churchill that can accomadate huge crowds. This way novice fans and people that are not die hards can walk up pay the 5 bucks and get in an expierience what a wonderful event it is.That is the way you build a bigger fan base. Not everyone could afford $100 dollars for a ticket and then still have ample money to gamble with. I am sure that everyone on this site wants to see the sport flourish. This small venue and new format is possibly going to exclude new fans from the sport. For the record, I love Monmouth Park. I try to go as much as I can. When I heard that the Breeders Cup was going to be held there I was extremely happy. Then I started to think about it, I came to the conclusion that Monmouth is way to small to hold one of the top racing events of the year. I don't know how many people they are going to let in, but anyone that has been there on Haskell day knows the place doesn't handle big crowds well. Then the size of the track is another story altogether. Why not just have all the races on one day. This is arguably the biggest day of the racing year. This is my superbowl, and now they are going to play the first quarter the day before.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I really think that the two day format is a bad idea. I think it is even a worst idea to roll this new format out at Monmouth Park this year. From what I understand there will be no walk up admission to Monmouth on Breeders Cup day. So what will the story be on Friday? Are some of the Monmouth loyalist going to be shut out on Friday also? What will the cost of the tickets be? Are people (besides the die hards) going to take the day off to go to the Breeders Cup? I do not think that this is good for the fans. Why not just make Saturday an even bigger and better day of racing. My guess is that they are going to charge people alot of money to see 3 races that they are going to call Breeders Cup races. What's going to be on the rest of the Friday card? The usual 5000 claiming races. I don't like the idea, but if they are going to go thorugh with it then need to try this new format at a place like Belmont or Churchill that can accomadate huge crowds. This way novice fans and people that are not die hards can walk up pay the 5 bucks and get in an expierience what a wonderful event it is.That is the way you build a bigger fan base. Not everyone could afford $100 dollars for a ticket and then still have ample money to gamble with. I am sure that everyone on this site wants to see the sport flourish. This small venue and new format is possibly going to exclude new fans from the sport. For the record, I love Monmouth Park. I try to go as much as I can. When I heard that the Breeders Cup was going to be held there I was extremely happy. Then I started to think about it, I came to the conclusion that Monmouth is way to small to hold one of the top racing events of the year. I don't know how many people they are going to let in, but anyone that has been there on Haskell day knows the place doesn't handle big crowds well. Then the size of the track is another story altogether. Why not just have all the races on one day. This is arguably the biggest day of the racing year. This is my superbowl, and now they are going to play the first quarter the day before.

There are three other $250,000 stakes on Friday as well so there will be at least 6 stakes races.

[Merlinsky]

I'm sure they had to prove they could expand to hold the crowd before they were given the slot. It's like how a city has to prove they can or will eventually be able to handle a lot of things before they get the Olympics. Athens barely made it but they got close enough. I figure tracks are going to try to build a killer Friday undercard if it sticks in future years.

I don't think you can justify a turf sprint until you deal with the effects of a BC Turf Juvie on American breeding/racing. I'm sure there'll be snorting and guffawing about that but I think American breeders are missing out on a big opportunity for money by ignoring an internationally popular surface. The Derby didn't used to be that big of a deal compared to now but with enough promotion it became the biggest 2 minutes in sports. A Turf Sprint for 3yos and up would do what exactly? It just means horses that gun for the lead and fall back in the BC Turf will have somewhere to go unless they were just a rabbit for Better Talk Now,etc. The Euro style is hanging back then exploding right? So how would a turf sprint inspire them to come? A Turf Juvenile might actually inspire more focus on the American preps for turf horses and then they'll have more interest in 3yo turf races. This improves the lead in for the Grand Slam of Turf and means we're getting to know these horses much sooner than the end of their 3yo years. I'm sure there's a lot of breeders who would love it if they didn't have to worry that a horse was more suited for turf because it'd still be valuable in the auction ring. The right promotion could do it.

Frankly that was a bonus. The Dirt Mile made me happy but a Juvenile Turf, good times.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole idea is basically a poor one....but it's the BC....the enemy of major league racing...... so why would it be a good idea?

Starting from the top....the mile. This will dilute the Classic ( not seriously ) and the Sprint in two detrimental ways. One, it will take away somewhat interesting contenders and two it will open the sprint up to more useless vermin that, in theory, doesn't belong in a championship race.

Now, the Filly and Mare sprint. OK, I understand one could argue they sort of " deserve " their own race...however.....fillies and mares have fared VERY well in the BC Sprint over the years and so in reality this race will further rob the BC Sprint of its overall quality.

Now, the 2YO turf race.....I'm sorry, what exactly is the US program that leads up to this race? Some turf maiden races seems to be about it. So this is great, we now have a BC race that caters to US horses that are too slow to run on dirt and Euros. OK, fine, I will personally enjoy this race and maybe the Euros do sort of deserve a race of their own, but don't try and fool me that this was a race that demanded to be run. I like the $250K filly version of this race they are already running and see no reason they shouldn't have run the same purse for the boys. Labeling it a " BC " race does not make any of the contestants better or more important horses.

I agree with this completely. The Classic and Sprint will suffer in quality and depth. There aren't 42 horses of grade one quality to fill the three races and quite a bit of the horses in the Classic wouldn't go there if there was a mile race instead. There just aren't that many quality 10f males in this country anymore. The much larger purse of the Classic will ensure that it will still attract a large field but it's going to be mostly filler as many of the quality horses end up in the mile.

Second, there is absolutely no need for a f/m sprint. There have been too many fillies that have done well in the open sprint. Horses like Very Subtle, Safely Kept, Meafara, Pine Tree Lane, Xtra Heat, Desert Stormer, Soviet Problem, and Honest Lady didn't need to have a separate race. At this distance, females are more than capable of running with the boys at an equal level.

There is a another problem that I haven't seen mentioned on here. Nobody has mentioned this part of the press release:

The expanded Oct. 26 program will include three $250,000 stakes funded by Breeders' Cup. They are a 1 1/16-mile event for 3-year-olds fillies, a one-mile turf race for 2-year-olds fillies, and a six-furlong test for 2-year-olds. Total purses for the Friday card will be $4 million, which makes it the second-richest day of racing in North American behind Breeders' Cup day.

What they forgot to add was that they are trying to get these three races increased to $1 million and make them BC races also. That would give us 14 races over the two days. I don't understand for the life of me why they would be adding an 8.5f race for 3yo fillies. Have they been having too hard a time winning the Distaff and I just haven't noticed? Let me think for a second.

Life's Magic-2nd 1984
Lady's Secret-2nd 1985
Sacahuista-1st 1987
Winning Colors-2nd 1988
Gorgeous-2nd 1989
Go for Wand-1st 1990
Dance Smartly-1st 1991
Versailles Treaty-2nd 1990
Hollywood Wildcat-1st 1993
Heavenly Prize-2nd 1994
Ajina-1st 1997
Sharp Cat-2nd 1997
Banshee Breeze-2nd 1998
Spain-1st 2000
Surfside-2nd 2000
Unbridled Elaine-1st 2001
Farda Amiga-2nd 2002
Elloluv-2nd 2003
Ashado-1st 2004

So they've won seven (eight if u count Go for Wand) and (again counting GfW), have taken 19 of 46 exacta spots in the history of the race. Yeah, they are really at a huge disadvantage and need their own race. This would impact the Distaff much more than a dirt mile will impact either the Sprint or Classic. It's stupid.

I think the whole idea is stupid. Let's see. Take the BC coming off of it's worst ratings in history and dilute the races even more and spread them out over another day. I mean, if nobody watches on one day, surely they'll circle the televisions for two days, especially since the first day will be full of secondary races. Brilliant.

[blackthroatedwind]

Apparently they think they will be able to fool people by substituting quantity for quality.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Apparently they think they will be able to fool people by substituting quantity for quality.

I bet you it works. Do you think handle for Monmouth on those two days combined would be higher with the old system or with the new one? I think the handle on Saturday will be within 5% of what it would have been under the old system and the Friday handle will be waaaaaaaaay up. So in a sense they will be substituing quantity and we will all fall for it.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i say get rid of the 10f 'classic' and make it 12f!

why is it a juvie filly can run 1 1/16, but an older mare only 1/16 further? and a horse only 3/16 further? why is that acceptable as meaningful, as a real test??

oh, and scav--i love direct deposit.

Biggest mistake the BC committee ever made (until this week) was cutting the BC Distaff back from 10f to 9f in 1988. Made it a race for milers, not classic horses.

Second biggest mistake is having a 6f sprint. Six furlongs is the cheap speed distance, not worthy of a $1 million purse. I would hold out for the longest one-turn distance from 7f to 8f that the host track could manage. Obviates the need for a new mile race.

Third biggest mistake is making the Juvie races two turns. This has led to the 'back-dating' of 2-turn prep races for 2yos into LATE AUGUST, which is a guaranteed formula to shorten careers by stressing immature knees and ankles on twice as many turns. Affirmed never raced around 2 turns at 2 in 9 starts; races like the Remsen, Ky JC, Breeders Futurity, were one-turn miles(or not quite a mile) and did just fine pointing out top prospects.

The way they are lengthening juvenile races and shortening races for older horses, pretty soon races for all ages will be one distance (maybe 1 1/16), like the trotters.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Second biggest mistake is having a 6f sprint. Six furlongs is the cheap speed distance, not worthy of a $1 million purse.

Define "worthiness" of a thoroughbred please.

Dont understand peoples need to knock sprinters. Most of the good ones were bred to be sprinters therefore not "cheap" speed just made differently genetically and physically.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Third biggest mistake is making the Juvie races two turns. This has led to the 'back-dating' of 2-turn prep races for 2yos into LATE AUGUST, which is a guaranteed formula to shorten careers by stressing immature knees and ankles on twice as many turns. Affirmed never raced around 2 turns at 2 in 9 starts; races like the Remsen, Ky JC, Breeders Futurity, were one-turn miles(or not quite a mile) and did just fine pointing out top prospects.

Could not agree with you more

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Could not agree with you more

Agree partially. I've felt that they should cut them all down to six furlong races for 2yo's but for a compromise, I could accept no two-turn races.