War Pass --DB ?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Rarely have I seen such inane reaction to an off performance. I suppose it's because we get so few starts from the classic-campaigning runners, but some of what's been written is so outlandish that it's hard to believe.

People claim they're fans of racing... Well if they are, then they should be well aware that horses lose. They have off performances and toss clunkers. They run through issues like spiked fevers and stay on schedule for races and get beat because they aren't 100% that day.

No one recalls Holy Bull being beaten 24 lengths in the Fountain of Youth? Afleet Alex' Rebel? Real Quiet's Golden Gate Derby? Obviously not because the same ridiculous comments that are sprinkled throughout this thread, and the laughable 'oh my gosh' thread, were said about those 3 year olds, Croll, Ritchey and Baffert at the time.

It could be that we've been conditioned to think that an off effort means a soon-to-be-discovered hidden problem and immediate retirement because connections don't work through issues anymore. And while everyone is entitled to offer their opinion on the topic, some degree of reasonable and rational reaction coupled with a dash of historical perspective is highly suggested.

I remember The Holy Bull incident also, flipping his palate in the FOY. He was written off in the Florida Derby for those that bet him it was a nice play back...

It's one race for WP, horses are not machines. Everyone is entitled to a bad day, however looking back at the past p's 2 nights ago I noticed other than the one monster slop effort around 2 turns for WP one could have questioned is he at his best at racing at a route or 2 turns more specifically. Another was the question is he as good at 3 as he was at 2? I guess the other question will now arrise is he a need to lead type ie. War Emblem
All questions that may help his odds if he continues on the TC trail.

The benefit of hindsight I guess, I just think of kicking myself for atleast not taking him on yesterday with Big Truck who I thought would have filled the exacta spot...7/1 on a horse that ran big in the prep, with Coa/Tagg running the show was a bad miss.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Couldn't have his connections switched races and waited a week to run in the Florida Derby if there was any chance that War Pass was 100%? We try to find every excuse when a good animal like this one gets soundly defeated, bottom line' something was wrong...anyone can see that. It's not the end of the world, unless he's really hurt bad. On to the next prep for the rest.....we're (sorry for the pun) "beating a dead horse" with this race effort.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Rarely have I seen such inane reaction to an off performance. I suppose it's because we get so few starts from the classic-campaigning runners, but some of what's been written is so outlandish that it's hard to believe.

People claim they're fans of racing... Well if they are, then they should be well aware that horses lose. They have off performances and toss clunkers. They run through issues like spiked fevers and stay on schedule for races and get beat because they aren't 100% that day.

No one recalls Holy Bull being beaten 24 lengths in the Fountain of Youth? Afleet Alex' Rebel? Real Quiet's Golden Gate Derby? Obviously not because the same ridiculous comments that are sprinkled throughout this thread, and the laughable 'oh my gosh' thread, were said about those 3 year olds, Croll, Ritchey and Baffert at the time.

It could be that we've been conditioned to think that an off effort means a soon-to-be-discovered hidden problem and immediate retirement because connections don't work through issues anymore. And while everyone is entitled to offer their opinion on the topic, some degree of reasonable and rational reaction coupled with a dash of historical perspective is highly suggested.

As GPK noted, and as I've personally witnessed in horses shipping down to Tampa from DEL and PHA, sometimes they just don't take to the surface there the first time they run. With that, and the fever, and not getting the lead, there's more than enough reason for a poor performance.

On the other hand, I understand why people are shocked, and I'm not going to call anyone's opinion ridiculous. As I'm sure I've heard you say on your show, Steve, the great ones overcome adversity.

So maybe War Pass isn't as good as some of the champions to which he's been compared. We hear overblown comparisons every year. Or maybe he is a great horse who'll have one clunker to darken his PPs. Or maybe he's just a very good horse who can still win the Kentucky Derby. There's still plenty of time before the Derby to find out.

[MaTH716]

As far as LaPenta goes, they were basically giving him the trophy before the race. Simon Bray thanked him for coming to Tampa(I guess thanking him for WP racing on TVG, very strange). I think he had his tail between is legs and tried coming up with a lame excused. As far as the horse goes, for the first time he didn't have a perfect trip. Got slammed out of the gate and never looked comfortable out there. Hopefully for the WP camp they could turn it into a learning experience. I think the race is a toss and if you still like him, maybe you will get a price on him in the wood.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What champions has War Pass been compared to?

some have compared him to slew, due to his running style.

[CSC]

On the other hand, he was a brilliant 2 yr old with a perfect record culminating with a demolishing run in the BC Juvenile. It is hard to maintain or even top the expectations that have been behooved upon him. Sooner than later this day had to come, it's hard being perfect.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What champions has War Pass been compared to?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020803619.html

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020803619.html

See...even the best thoroughbred writers and handicappers can be wrong. Any horse whether "slow" or "fast" can be beaten anytime, no matter how much you watch races or study them. Luck does play a part, but at 1-20 anyone could see that this was a very good horse...even Stevie Wonder!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

He said they had a comparable resume in their 2 year old season and the same running style. I didn't see any comparison of talent.

exactly. i think writers compare horses that we see today to stars of the past, as how else would many know what they were talking about? seattle slew was pretty much a household name. so if you want your readers to know that this horse was brilliant at two, and likes to run up front-would you toss out some no name to compare him to?
but then some jerk their knees, and go off the deep end. how dare he compare him to slew?! sigh

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Who said he couldn't be beaten? And he's no longer a very good horse? You crack me up.

apparently the only two very good horses we've ever had are colin one hundred years ago and personal ensign.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Who said he couldn't be beaten? And he's no longer a very good horse? You crack me up.

Well, I'm glad of that Just about everyone thought he was a "lock" to win yesterday versus that group (ie. 1-20) and there are some that don't think he's such a "good" horse after that effort...just look at some of the post.
I'm not one, something was wrong with him yesterday....so I'm not dismissing him yet. Funny though, how other 3 yr.olds didn't match up to him before yesterday's race..... I think the playing field is level now after that effort.

[mik9872]

Many racing fans are too quick to make outlandish judgements on horses too quickly, either positive or negative. Toss the race out and see if he comes back with a better performance. TVG was gushing before the race, saying WP was the leader of the sport. I guess they forgot about a horse named Curlin. If there was even a hint of illness in the horse he shouldn't have been running. Let's see if he will be given the chance to erase this performance.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by mik9872

Many racing fans are too quick to make outlandish judgements on horses too quickly, either positive or negative. Toss the race out and see if he comes back with a better performance. TVG was gushing before the race, saying WP was the leader of the sport. I guess they forgot about a horse named Curlin. If there was even a hint of illness in the horse he shouldn't have been running. Let's see if he will be given the chance to erase this performance.

Well said Mike the first line in your statement...sums it up on any horses.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

He said they had a comparable resume in their 2 year old season and the same running style. I didn't see any comparison of talent.

Okay. Fine. You're right. He didn't compare TALENT. Forget what I said about overblown comparisons. It's not the point of my original post, it's dicta, and not worth debating.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Kasept

No one recalls Holy Bull being beaten 24 lengths in the Fountain of Youth? Afleet Alex' Rebel? Real Quiet's Golden Gate Derby? Obviously not because the same ridiculous comments that are sprinkled throughout this thread, and the laughable 'oh my gosh' thread, were said about those 3 year olds, Croll, Ritchey and Baffert at the time.

I also remember Afleet Alex going to his nose in the stretch of the Preakness, but he overcame that adversity.
why is it ridiculous to feel that this horse may not in the league with the horses that you've mentioned? I was under the impression that War Pass still had something to prove. Personally until I see a 2 turn route on a fast track against top competition, I hold a question mark in my mind. It seems that many have already made up their minds that he's untouchable.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I also remember Afleet Alex going to his nose in the stretch of the Preakness, but he overcame that adversity.
why is it ridiculous to feel that this horse may not in the league with the horses that you've mentioned? I was under the impression that War Pass still had something to prove. Personally until I see a 2 turn route on a fast track against top competition, I hold a question mark in my mind. It seems that many have already made up their minds that he's untouchable.

Exactly.

You lose by 20 lengths and don't beat a horse at 1-20, what do you expect?

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No one said their talent levels are the same. Holy Bull, Alex, Real Quiet were examples of huge favorites that didn't run a step in a certain prep race only to be vindicated later. That's the point. For whatever talk War Pass has gotten, show me a fan of his that didn't and still doesn't think he has question marks. All that was said before and can really still be said is that he was the fastest 2 year old and a pretty good horse. Who thinks he's untouchable? At this point they all have question marks, right?

Yes

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I also remember Afleet Alex going to his nose in the stretch of the Preakness, but he overcame that adversity.
why is it ridiculous to feel that this horse may not in the league with the horses that you've mentioned? I was under the impression that War Pass still had something to prove. Personally until I see a 2 turn route on a fast track against top competition, I hold a question mark in my mind. It seems that many have already made up their minds that he's untouchable.

thing is, it's a no win situation. war pass won by a big margin in the juvie, it was the slop. he wins for fun, the competition is suspect. he doesn't overcome a variety of circumstances, and now he's no good. had he won yesterday, yesterdays group would have been viewed as 'soft', and let's just see what happens next time.

too many view this sport in black and white, when there are many shades of grey.

once more, maybe this horse isn't as fantastic as some thought, but i doubt he's as bad as others are now saying. but this whole crop is still a mystery, with the top of the heap being a horse who has lost to war pass more than once.
ah, but isn't it fun trying to figure it all out?!?!

[jms62]

Monmouth Park is a very speed favoring track. Add in the Slop which also favors front end speed especially Juves not used to getting mud in there face. He won by a diminishing margin each of his route starts vs Pyro (Pyro cutting into lead). He needed to be challanged on the front end, he was and basically he either is not 100 % or he quit, neither a good place to be this close to the derby. Also, the Juvenile jinx, do you really thing that we go 20 odd years before the Juve winner takes the derby and it happens twice in a row. IMHO this years derby will be a Great betting race.

[cmorioles]

It is one thing to be challenged and fold. It is quite another to never look interested. Something definitely seemed amiss here.