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  #101  
Old 11-04-2007, 04:46 PM
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Hopefully something like this won't hurt the show. I look forward to the 3 hours every afternoon.

I would not renew my Sirius if the show were gone.
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  #102  
Old 11-04-2007, 05:12 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaloWishingwell
He served 45 days for a banned substance he used up in Saratoga which is ironic. Saratoga being where three horses died on him in the same meet including LEFT BANK. Here's the banned substance story below.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=31402
surely you aren't suggesting something untoward about left bank? he had colicked in the past, and had some of his intestine removed. a repeat attack is what killed him.
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  #103  
Old 11-04-2007, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
surely you aren't suggesting something untoward about left bank? he had colicked in the past, and had some of his intestine removed. a repeat attack is what killed him.
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do...0&subs=0&arc=1
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  #104  
Old 11-04-2007, 05:45 PM
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Left Bank's colic was the first in a grim series of events for Pletcher. Two days after Left Bank departed for his initial surgery, Padua Stables' graded stakes winner Freedom's Daughter succumbed to a case of the intestinal disease colitis X. Nine days after that, the Grade 3-placed colt Warners died after developing laminitis; Pletcher had shipped Warners to a Saratoga clinic when the colt showed signs of intestinal problems similar to those exhibited by Freedom's Daughter.
3 dead horses within 11 days... nothing at least slightly suspicious about that? None died on the track, all due to "illness"...
I'm not guaranteeing, or even advocating foul play, but I would guess there was no deep inquiry into the deaths, by an unbiased group (none exists in racing).
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  #105  
Old 11-04-2007, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfer
3 dead horses within 11 days... nothing at least slightly suspicious about that? None died on the track, all due to "illness"...
I'm not guaranteeing, or even advocating foul play, but I would guess there was no deep inquiry into the deaths, by an unbiased group (none exists in racing).
Dont you think that the insurance companies that paid off these claims investigated them?
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  #106  
Old 11-04-2007, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Dont you think that the insurance companies that paid off these claims investigated them?
Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.
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  #107  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfer
Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.
The colic certainly should not come under suspicion because of his previous problems. The colitis X is not that uncommon. Warners brought the most questions because he had recently run a freaky race far out of character and there was never a reason given concerning his death.

Cant really compare this to humans becuase horses die from things that humans easily recover from. Also the fact that he trains over 200 horses makes it less unusual than a guy who has 20 and the same problem.
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  #108  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
The colic certainly should not come under suspicion because of his previous problems. The colitis X is not that uncommon. Warners brought the most questions because he had recently run a freaky race far out of character and there was never a reason given concerning his death.

Cant really compare this to humans becuase horses die from things that humans easily recover from. Also the fact that he trains over 200 horses makes it less unusual than a guy who has 20 and the same problem.

They all ran freaky races.

Freedom's Daughter dueled in an insane pace and drew off like a machine and Left Bank's Whitney was a devastating performance. He sat off a Jerkens horse who set a ridiculous pace and destroyed Street Cry among others. Street Cry was coming off his blowout ( and 122 Beyer ) of Congaree in the Foster.
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  #109  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:08 PM
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I was not nearly as "involved" in racing back then as now (and by involved, I mean a fan), so I don't have specific information. I'm looking at this with no pre-conceived notions, I just feel it is REASONABLE to be suspicious. I don't think Pletcher's stable was that large back in 2002, but I don't know for sure.
Also, there is speculation that this was right around the time he started his relationship with Dr. Allday.
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  #110  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfer
I was not nearly as "involved" in racing back then as now (and by involved, I mean a fan), so I don't have specific information. I'm looking at this with no pre-conceived notions, I just feel it is REASONABLE to be suspicious. I don't think Pletcher's stable was that large back in 2002, but I don't know for sure.
Also, there is speculation that this was right around the time he started his relationship with Dr. Allday.
He was pretty big back then too.
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  #111  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:15 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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note also that left banks demise was announced in october. his initial surgery was in august. these three horses didn't die within eleven days of one another. certainly not unheard of however for more than one horse in a barn to suffer an illness at the same time.

but golfer if there is no suggestion of foul play, etc, what are you suggesting about these 'illnesses' as you put it?
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  #112  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
note also that left banks demise was announced in october. his initial surgery was in august. these three horses didn't die within eleven days of one another. certainly not unheard of however for more than one horse in a barn to suffer an illness at the same time.

but golfer if there is no suggestion of foul play, etc, what are you suggesting about these 'illnesses' as you put it?
You are right, 2 of them died within 11 days. Left Bank hung on for a while longer. I didn't say there is no suggestion of foul play, only that I personally have no knowledge of it, and don't want to suggest that I do. However, I do believe it is reasonable to leave open the possibility that there was.
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  #113  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:29 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfer
You are right, 2 of them died within 11 days. Left Bank hung on for a while longer. I didn't say there is no suggestion of foul play, only that I personally have no knowledge of it, and don't want to suggest that I do. However, I do believe it is reasonable to leave open the possibility that there was.
why? i'd hate for someone to use coincidence and circumstance to infer anything about me.
i try to give people the benefit of the doubt. til there is sufficient proof of wrongdoing, i see no reason to suggest at all that there could be something funny going on.
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  #114  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfer
However, I do believe it is reasonable to leave open the possibility that there was.
It is reasonable
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  #115  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:32 PM
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HaloWishingwell HaloWishingwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
They all ran freaky races.

Freedom's Daughter dueled in an insane pace and drew off like a machine and Left Bank's Whitney was a devastating performance. He sat off a Jerkens horse who set a ridiculous pace and destroyed Street Cry among others. Street Cry was coming off his blowout ( and 122 Beyer ) of Congaree in the Foster.
You mean a 3 furlong blowout before the race didn't make their Beyers freak out? Damn I thought these trainers were good.
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  #116  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:36 PM
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What everyone is dancing around with their not-too-subtle insinuations is that the only explaination some buy for an unexpectedly exceptional performance by a horse is drug abuse.
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  #117  
Old 11-04-2007, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
What everyone is dancing around with their not-too-subtle insinuations is that the only explaination some buy for an unexpectedly exceptional performance by a horse is drug abuse.
Absolutely NOT!! It is not the only explanation, but it is ONE POSSIBILITY.
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  #118  
Old 11-04-2007, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfer
Absolutely NOT!! It is not the only explanation, but it is ONE POSSIBILITY.
Agreed it's certainly one possibility.

But I tend to consider that for trainers that have multiple, repeated drug positives over the years in their histories, rather than for those that do not.
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  #119  
Old 11-04-2007, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfer
Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.
I am quite sure the insurance companies would not only demand necropsies by proven competent laboratories (gross, histopathology, toxicologic), but if any results were in question, would have a second or even a third laboratory examine the findings.
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  #120  
Old 11-04-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Also, if you need round the clock surveillance, I can be there in 12 hours
Careful, many states now have laws against stalkers.
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