Rule of Thumb for wagering at Keeneland

Originally Posted by oracle80

You tell us you have no vested interest in this stuff, yet you consistently shill it. I respect anyone's right to privacy, I really do. But you telling us that you are seeking out Biancone to ask him questions on the backside, reading minutes of a Keeneland meeting, and the funniest was when I caught you(and several people noted it to me in pm's saying good work) telling us how Turfway's handle was up opening day when it hadnt been announced to anyone yet what the handle even was. Your explanation whne I pointed this out was that you had spoken to the mutuel guy about it.
Look, I respect your right to be anonymous and not tell us who you are, but there isn't any way that you don't have some sort of vested interest in Turfway or keeneland or polytrack. NONE!
Do you honestly expect us to believe that Turfway's mutuel guy will just give out info not realeased to the public on handle to anyone.
If I called Turfway now and asked for the mutuel guy to give the meet end stats that havent been realeased yet do you think he would give them to me? How about if RandallScott or PointG called?
You are asking me to believe that you have no connection to Kee/TP/Poly and yet have information on handle and minutes of a meeting that public doesn't get.
Please stop insulting my intelligence ok? and everyone elses. You are shilling for everything they do on here, and attempting to tell us that you have no vested interest and are just a casual fan. Sorry, but a blind man could see thats not the case.

Don't you have a vested interest in the sport. Do you fear your business declining due to the implementation of polytrack?

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Don't you have a vested interest in the sport. Do you fear your business declining due to the implementation of polytrack?

I think you miss the point Pillow. Many people have a vested interest in the SPORT, which encompasses many things.
I asked if he had a vestetd interest in a specific track or company.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Lharge, noone wants horses to get hurt but the BUSINESS of horse racing is pretty heavily reliant on wagering to kinda generate minor things like purses.
I've got a great idea Jpops!!!
Go and get us the paperwork to fill out for a patent today!!! YOu can be my partner!! We'll call it pillowtrack. We'll take thousands of pillows and use them as the base. Then we cover the pillow base with a 3 foot layer of feathers.
Sure it will take em 5 minutes to go 6 furlongs. But hey, I'm sure it won't take long to find out who the excellent pillow track stallions are. Injuries will drop down to nothing. And if one falls the jocks will be safe landing on the feathers over the pillow base.
Of course noone will bet the stuff, and tracks will go out of business, but as long as we have a bunch of safe horses thats all that matters!!
Pillow Track!!! A jpops/oracle company bringing the ultimate in safe race track conditions to a track near you!!! Coming soon!!!

Jpops I'm off to hit the local chicken farms to see how fast they can fill the order for the feather surface.
You hit someplace like Macy's to get the pillows. I don't want you going to Wal Mart and getting those cheap pillows, we want nothing but the best in this operation.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Exactly, but you have to talk about the Polytrack issue wearing kitten gloves because of all of the horses that are breaking down on dirt....I love the quick fix it provides to the health of the horse and the quick fix it provides to the entry box for racetracks to make them more money by having a BIGGER card to bet (but ironically, a decievingly worse ad more confusing card to bet for the handicapper), but I DO NOT like the fact that it will change the game in MORE ASPECTS THAN THE AVERAGE HORSE AN REALIZES!!!

I look at it like this:

Yes, I'm sad to see Barbaro break down on dirt, but it would be a greater shame in my opinion if Barbaro was never realized as a good horse had he had to run on Polytrack his whole life, because you never know...he might hae HATED it and just been another 'horse' - and not the Barbaro we grew to love by his turf and dirt efforts.....just saying..

The Polytrack will bring different kinds of champions, but I'll always question in the back of my mind how good a champion on Polytrack really is if he had to run on dirt...

Remember, horses are wild animals that learned how to run and be superior athletes in the natural environs of the planet - mostly consisting of GRASS pasteurs or DIRT trails....

God didn't make them to run on rubber tires and fibers covered in wax.....thats just my opinion though

Offs. That's like saying track athletes are suspect because they don't run on dirt anymore.

All this boils down to is fear of change. Whether it's the vet's fear of losing business or the breeding industry in panic mode. Heaven forbid these people have to adapt.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think you miss the point Pillow. Many people have a vested interest in the SPORT, which encompasses many things.
I asked if he had a vestetd interest in a specific track or company.

And I have said 100 times that I do not.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think you miss the point Pillow. Many people have a vested interest in the SPORT, which encompasses many things.
I asked if he had a vestetd interest in a specific track or company.

If he does I see no harm with promoting his vested interest. You're doing the same thing by denouncing poly due to the fact it could have a negative impact on your business.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

And I have said 100 times that I do not.

Ok enough of that.
Euro Jpops and I are starting the Pillowtrack Corp. After very brief conferring, we are asking you to take on the lead role of publicity and propaganda. We are quite impressed with your resume, including first and foremost not only the experience you have running your business, but the incredible enthusiam and steadfast support of polytrack.
We'd like to you to be CFO and head of marketing and propaganda.
This could be very lucrative.
Do you know where we can a good deal of about 100,000 top of the line pillows. I'm in upstate Ny so I think I can handle the feathers.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

If he does I see no harm with promoting his vested interest. You're doing the same thing by denouncing poly due to the fact it could have a negative impact on your business.

People will always buy horses.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Lharge, noone wants horses to get hurt but the BUSINESS of horse racing is pretty heavily reliant on wagering to kinda generate minor things like purses.
I've got a great idea Jpops!!!
Go and get us the paperwork to fill out for a patent today!!! YOu can be my partner!! We'll call it pillowtrack. We'll take thousands of pillows and use them as the base. Then we cover the pillow base with a 3 foot layer of feathers.
Sure it will take em 5 minutes to go 6 furlongs. But hey, I'm sure it won't take long to find out who the excellent pillow track stallions are. Injuries will drop down to nothing. And if one falls the jocks will be safe landing on the feathers over the pillow base.
Of course noone will bet the stuff, and tracks will go out of business, but as long as we have a bunch of safe horses thats all that matters!!
Pillow Track!!! A jpops/oracle company bringing the ultimate in safe race track conditions to a track near you!!! Coming soon!!!

I'm gonna sue you guys.

[SniperSB23]

Can someone give me some good examples of older consistent horses that have gone to polytrack and absolutely run terrible just because of the surface? I've seen lots of 2yos move up or down off of it but that is normal for 2yos on any surface. Premium Tap ran a poor race but you can blame Kent D for his troubles more than the surface. The only major difference I have seen with polytrack is that turf horses like it a lot more than they like the dirt.

Originally Posted by oracle80

People will always buy horses.

Exactly and people will figure out which bloodline takes to poly and things will even out in the end.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Can someone give me some good examples of older consistent horses that have gone to polytrack and absolutely run terrible just because of the surface? I've seen lots of 2yos move up or down off of it but that is normal for 2yos on any surface. Premium Tap ran a poor race but you can blame Kent D for his troubles more than the surface. The only major difference I have seen with polytrack is that turf horses like it a lot more than they like the dirt.

How about Lawyer Ron? Hes only earned over a mill on dirt. Lemons Forever comes to mind as well, off the board in a 100 grand polycrap race, next out wins the Oaks. Those are pretty good for starters.
If they stayed on poly they'd have been in for a tag after long.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Exactly and people will figure out which bloodline takes to poly and things will even out in the end.

They won't. Its not a breeding thing, its not something a horse can be bred for. It defies all evolution and breeding.

Originally Posted by oracle80

How about Lawyer Ron? Hes only earned over a mill on dirt. Lemons Forever comes to mind as well, off the board in a 100 grand polycrap race, next out wins the Oaks. Those are pretty good for starters.
If they stayed on poly they'd have been in for a tag after long.

One could argue that the Oaks is suspect since Lemons Forever has been pretty much a no show the rest of the year.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Exactly and people will figure out which bloodline takes to poly and things will even out in the end.

Not in our lifetimes...

Originally Posted by oracle80

They won't. Its not a breeding thing, its not something a horse can be bred for. It defies all evolution and breeding.

I'm not a scientist but I find that highly illogical.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

One could argue that the Oaks is suspect since Lemons Forever has been pretty much a no show the rest of the year.

She still managed to hit the board in grade ones after that.
Bottom line is that she missed the board in a cheap stakes race filled with nobodies and in her next start won the Oaks.
Look, I can see you are pretty good at trying to play devil's advocate with every statement, but people who attempt that don't impress me. Its a very easy thing to do.
You can make up something along those lines for just about every horse can't you?
How about YOU telling us in for oh so infinite wisdom and knowledge about the ones who ran well on Poly and replicated the form on dirt. I promise not to be like you and play Devil's advocate with each one.
Feel free to enlighten us. Thanks!

Originally Posted by oracle80

She still managed to hit the board in grade ones after that.
Bottom line is that she missed the board in a cheap stakes race filled with nobodies and in her next start won the Oaks.
Look, I can see you are pretty good at trying to play devil's advocate with every statement, but people who attempt that don't impress me. Its a very easy thing to do.
You can make up something along those lines for just about every horse can't you?
How about YOU telling us in for oh so infinite wisdom and knowledge about the ones who ran well on Poly and replicated the form on dirt. I promise not to be like you and play Devil's advocate with each one.
Feel free to enlighten us. Thanks!

Go back and watch that race. Lemons Forever was closing very very fast at Turfway. It was a prep for the Oaks and the trainer didnt even have her cranked 100%. Her 3rd place performance at Turfway was a great prep to the Oaks. And since I got to see that race, saw how she worked, saw how pathetic the top horses in the Oaks looked---I benefited from a 40-1 shot winning.

We're gonna need Pgardn as well on this Company and I wanna hire him as head of technology.
Pgardn, get back to us asap. We need you to draw up nifty little sketches of how the surface is layed down, what it is, the scientific makeup down to the molecule of both the pillows(pillowcases also), and the feathers.
Then we need you to write up the scientific data as it applies to pressure per square inch and resiliency. Lots of charts and data and figures that noone will understand and is too complicated for them to verify because most folks won't have any idea what you are talking about. And what people don't understand they often label as brilliance instead of bull****. Its a fact.
Now Pgardn, this is your ticket out of the high school to the big time. We'll have you on one of those big Texas ranches like J.R. lived on in Dallas, in no time.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Go back and watch that race. Lemons Forever was closing very very fast at Turfway. It was a prep for the Oaks and the trainer didnt even have her cranked 100%. Her 3rd place performance at Turfway was a great prep to the Oaks. And since I got to see that race, saw how she worked, saw how pathetic the top horses in the Oaks looked---I benefited from a 40-1 shot winning.

Believe me that guy wanted to win that race at Turfway, it's not like he knew that horse was going to win the Oaks, he probably was surprised as anyone...