Officially Crap

Originally Posted by philcski

He gets **** because (a) his claims (to/from) often have significant form reversals, ( b ) runs horses back 4 days later off a huge effort, stepping up in price/class, and STILL wins by 5, and the biggie: (c) drug suspensions.

So Conquistador Cielo was juiced?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The guy at Calder mother****ed me and said why do you parasites have to call so soon, can't I enjoy it for a few days at least.

He should enjoy the check he receives

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eddie barker

The Cliff Claven of horse racing

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He should enjoy the check he receives

I just wish everyone thought like we do.
You can take the risk that the horse stays sound and earns out what you can make by taking the cash now, or you can just teh cash and let somone else take the risk.
Whats so bad about that?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The Cliff Claven of horse racing

Hes got one hell of a right hand though.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I just wish everyone thought like we do.
You can take the risk that the horse stays sound and earns out what you can make by taking the cash now, or you can just teh cash and let somone else take the risk.
Whats so bad about that?

At places like Calder its the difference between those that survive in the business and those that eventually dont.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hes got one hell of a right hand though.

But he still looks like Cliff from Cheers

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

But he still looks like Cliff from Cheers

He got beat at the wire in September for the entire superfecta mutuel pool at Belmont in the 9th race in a ny bred maiden race on the grass. He woulda had the only ticket.
I saw him two days after and he was still white and shaking. That was one tough beat.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by oracle80

So Conquistador Cielo was juiced?

Haha i have no idea. I was 4 when he won the Met/Belmont.
The first horse I REALLY remember running was the next year... DEVILS BAG at Belmont, then Hialeah. "If only" on that one...

[blackthroatedwind]

A new low has been set for name dropping in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, Eddie Barker is a nice guy, but at least on Steve's birthday can you raise the quality of your name dropping.

How about Heliadoro Gustines? I assume you guys are tight?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A new low has been set for name dropping in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, Eddie Barker is a nice guy, but at least on Steve's birthday can you raise the quality of your name dropping.

How about Heliadoro Gustines? I assume you guys are tight?

LOL!!
I don't think its possible to "drop" the name of a guy like Eddie.
It would be like name dropping the one and only, the legendary, the greatest race track hustler of all time, "Black Joe".

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A new low has been set for name dropping in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, Eddie Barker is a nice guy, but at least on Steve's birthday can you raise the quality of your name dropping.

How about Heliadoro Gustines? I assume you guys are tight?

I just saw your new low and raised you a Black Joe.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Get a grip Phil. The guy is pretty near as good as it gets these days. Been sending horses to him to "baby sit" for years while we were in Cal.

Not saying he isn't a good horseman and sharp claimer- he is- I just don't like some of his, shall we say, "tactics"?

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Get a grip Phil. The guy is pretty near as good as it gets these days. Been sending horses to him to "baby sit" for years while we were in Cal.

He acknowledges that his ability to train good horses was made easier by having the priviliege of watching the Frankel's when they shipped in to town before Frankel set up shop in NY again.
They came with training blueprints and instructions on what to do with them, how to gallop, breeze, jog and train them.
He paid attention, and was very fortunate to be able to get on the job experience with what to do with good horses, he didn't have those himself at the time and there is no substitute for hands on experience.

Originally Posted by Cardus

Dutrow's father didn't teach him enough? He needed to watch Frankel's horses to refine his techniques?

Of course he learned from his Dad Cardus. But the best horse his dad trained was Kings Swan. he didn't have a barn full of grade one stakes horses. He had a lotta claimers.
Its a different story training top stakes horses. The techniques ARE different in training a good horse and a claimer. Not the fundamentals, like condition and feed and shoeing, etc. But training good horses is really harder than claimers, claimers you just have to keep happy, you don't have to drill them into condition.
Top horse require a delicate balance of getting and keeping fit without sending them over the top.
I don't think acknowledging a break and good fortune and the opportunity to learn something from one of the best is something to be ashamed of.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

It's Heliodoro pal. "Pepito" to his friends. He rode 2nd call for Buddy and I behind Bobby for a few years. He married Ruth Streitz daughter (Streitz matzohs) I think she might have been Jewish.

I knew the " a " didn't look right.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I knew the " a " didn't look right.

So shes Mrs Heliodoro Streitz Gustines? Wow.

[blackthroatedwind]

I can't speak for everybody, but my nose is growing just READING this thread.

I'm thinking of throwing myself through the looking glass on the off chance it's more realistic on the other side.

It can't be less.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Can he be a good horseman and sharp claimer, yet employ "tactics?"

Wouldn't a good horseman and sharp claimer be such without "tactics?"

Yes, and possibly. Doesn't mean I have to perscribe to it though.

Well at least his % is the same at all jurisdictions that he races in, pretty much.
Unlike some unnamed folks who miraculously go to certain racing jurisdictions and go on fire with the same horses they couldnt win at other jurisdictions with.