Knicks Get Melo: Did they give up too much? - Page 5

dalakhani · #81 02-27-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Is it me, or does Amare seem to be uncomfortable on the offensive side since the trade?

Of course he is. Totally new team around him.

MaTH716 · #82 02-27-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

That was some nice defense. 50 points in three quarters allowed to a pretty nice offensive team.

The knicks aren't contenders yet but they are relevant. They weren't a week ago.

I don't know if it was really good D or just really bad offense. Miami looked horendous tonight, I don't think I have ever seen Dwayne Wade play so poorly. Also I saw some of that Lebron softness that Coach is always talking about. He needed to go to the hole like a man late in the game instead of a puss. He got blocked by Amare and cried about a phantom hack. I know it was far from the Heat's best game tonight, but I don't see them winning shiat with that team.

King Glorious · #83 02-27-2011, 11:31 PM

It definitely was a better defensive effort from them but the Heat just sucked once again. They probably aren't as bad as they looked against Cleveland or as good as they looked tonight but if I think they are closer to the Cleveland effort.

I agree that Stoudamire appears to be lost. For stretches, I forgot he was even on the court. For a guy that was unhappy in Phoenix with not being the star, I wonder how content he's going to be being secondary yet again.

herkhorse · #84 02-28-2011, 06:47 AM

The Heat sucked , but you have to credit the Knicks for some of that. Billups finally made a shot at the end of the game. At this point, I'd rather have Melo on my team than "King James"

Cannon Shell · #85 02-28-2011, 10:15 AM

Miami's offense has no flow when they aren't in the transition game. They beat the weaker teams simply because they are winning the James, Wade, Bosh matchups by such a large margin. Against better teams and when forced to play half court, they become stagnant and can't just depend on superior talent.

What it eventually boils down to is players 4-8 on both NY and Miami are so weak that they can't really be depended on to contribute consistently because they just arent good players.

Miami needs a strong voice (new coach) and a facilitator. The coach is probably coming unless they get to the Finals. The facilitator will be tougher to find.

dalakhani · #86 02-28-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Miami's offense has no flow when they aren't in the transition game. They beat the weaker teams simply because they are winning the James, Wade, Bosh matchups by such a large margin. Against better teams and when forced to play half court, they become stagnant and can't just depend on superior talent.

What it eventually boils down to is players 4-8 on both NY and Miami are so weak that they can't really be depended on to contribute consistently because they just arent good players.

Miami needs a strong voice (new coach) and a facilitator. The coach is probably coming unless they get to the Finals. The facilitator will be tougher to find.

The thing is, Wade and Lebron both need the ball to be effective. Lebron has never played in an offense that didn't run through him. Wade is going to have to play off of Lebron in order for this thing to work. Those two guys aren't going to allow for a facilitator in the classic sense. They are going to need someone that can guard the quicker point guards and stand there and hit a three off the catch. Lebron and Wade aren't exceptional three point shooters so having a guy that can consistently knock down an open three would be important so that their spacing is right.

The league needs to think about contraction and they really need to work on player development. The league has regressed at a rapid pace over the last few years.

Cannon Shell · #87 02-28-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The thing is, Wade and Lebron both need the ball to be effective. Lebron has never played in an offense that didn't run through him. Wade is going to have to play off of Lebron in order for this thing to work. Those two guys aren't going to allow for a facilitator in the classic sense. They are going to need someone that can guard the quicker point guards and stand there and hit a three off the catch. Lebron and Wade aren't exceptional three point shooters so having a guy that can consistently knock down an open three would be important so that their spacing is right.

The league needs to think about contraction and they really need to work on player development. The league has regressed at a rapid pace over the last few years.

I thought that is how it would work before the season but if you watch them play against quality teams you see that it is not going to work very well. LeBron has always had the offense run through him but that has been through necessity as opposed to choice. I understand that it is a little different situation and I also know that very few watched the games in the middle of the night except die hards but Wade and LeBron were very effective not only playing with facilitators in the Olympics but meshed with Kobe as well.

What most people miss is that Wade and Lebron and the starters only play 75% of the game. That leaves a lot of time that they aren't playing together. Miami gave that game away in the last 4 minutes of the 1st half. But the truth is it is a game in February and doesn't really mean much. Hell Miami lost by 5 to the old Knick team a month ago. The problem with Miami is that they aren't progressing offensively. They are wasting their matchup advantage by playing LeBron at point so much of the game. When Boston countered with Rondo guarding him the other day I thought that they would see that. Maybe they do and just dont trust Chalmers or Arroyo. I wouldn't. But asking LeBron to play point for 40 minutes a game is a mistake. Finding an established facilitator to play 30 minutes a game will exploit the matchup advantage that Miami will have on the wings. LeBron and Wade can man the point as a change up for short periods of time.

Finding guys that can hit 3 pointers consistently AND guard quicker PG's isnt an easy thing to do

Cannon Shell · #88 02-28-2011, 11:13 AM

The league could contract a few teams simply because there are markets that arent supporting their teams. But there are more good-great players in the league now than there was 10 years ago. And don't forget that almost every potential impact player is coming into the league as a teenager now, not as a 21 year old with 3 years of college experience.

dalakhani · #89 02-28-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The league could contract a few teams simply because there are markets that arent supporting their teams. But there are more good-great players in the league now than there was 10 years ago. And don't forget that almost every potential impact player is coming into the league as a teenager now, not as a 21 year old with 3 years of college experience.

I would agree with both points but there are guys in the league now that wouldn't be in the league 10 years ago. There are some really bad players and stiffs that make it because the overall talent level has declined and the league is watered down with the extra teams.

clyde · #90 02-28-2011, 11:53 AM

Ladies and gentlemen,do not be disturbed.

It's not rocket science.

MISTERGEE · #91 02-28-2011, 12:23 PM

was arroyo the facilitator when they won 22 in a row?

dalakhani · #92 02-28-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

was arroyo the facilitator when they won 22 in a row?

They didn't win 22 in a row although they were close. They won 22-23 with only a loss to Dallas in the middle between the end of nov into the beginning of january. Arroyo started but chalmers would get the end of the game minutes. Arroyo plays no defense.

The only team they beat during this run was LA during a period of time LA was playing awful.

clyde · #93 02-28-2011, 12:46 PM

As you can see...Arroyo was,in fact, the facilitator.

Cannon Shell · #94 02-28-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I would agree with both points but there are guys in the league now that wouldn't be in the league 10 years ago. There are some really bad players and stiffs that make it because the overall talent level has declined and the league is watered down with the extra teams.

True enough though no one seems to mind watching NCAA basketball which is dramatically worse because those same players who should be developing in college are riding the pine in the NBA

Cannon Shell · #95 02-28-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

was arroyo the facilitator when they won 22 in a row?

No he was Carlos Arroyo, cheap help because they need to bodies to fill the roster. He is averaging 3 assists in 22 minutes a game this year. (that is not good btw)

Cannon Shell · #96 02-28-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

They didn't win 22 in a row although they were close. They won 22-23 with only a loss to Dallas in the middle between the end of nov into the beginning of january. Arroyo started but chalmers would get the end of the game minutes. Arroyo plays no defense.

The only team they beat during this run was LA during a period of time LA was playing awful.

Arroyo versus Chalmers....

another situation where there is no winner, only a loser.

King Glorious · #97 02-28-2011, 06:23 PM

Word is that Miami could be adding Mike Bibby (almost a done deal) and Troy Murphy this week.

MaTH716 · #98 02-28-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Word is that Miami could be adding Mike Bibby (almost a done deal) and Troy Murphy this week.

Wasn't the trade deadline last week?

GPK · #99 02-28-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Wasn't the trade deadline last week?

Pretty sure they can pick players up off waivers through tomorrow?

Cannon Shell · #**100** 02-28-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Wasn't the trade deadline last week?

They are being bought out by the teams they were traded for. In simple terms they pay them to go way so they can use their salary number which gives them greater cap space moving forward. Once they clear waivers they are free to sign with any team for I believe a pro-rated amount of the league min.

That being said the 2011 versions of Bibby and Murphy are't huge upgrades though they are capable NBA vets who may be able to contribute something in limited minutes.