Aqu 1st

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

3 pages about the 1st at Aqueduct? No, turns into a pissing match that should have been handled out of the public eye but is left for the world to read, glad I did not waste more then a couple seconds scanning this thread.

It was actually fairly civil and a bit entertaining. My wife speaks to me worse than that before I open both eyes.

[2MinsToPost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

It was actually fairly civil and a bit entertaining. My wife speaks to me worse than that before I open both eyes.

It is great entertainment - especially when I am not in the middle of it for a change Just seems, nevermind

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by oracle80

No threat, and I'm still waiting to hear about my original intent, which was to discuss and aprk debate(and yeah, I had you targeted when I made teh first post, but no to go where you took it all).
I thught when I posted it would spark a useful thread, and it still might, I think I had a very valid point.

I'm a fan, but fairly well-read and I wager enough to make it worthwhile to try to know what's going on to the extent i can educate myself.

Here's what I think.

Misuse of drugs, legal and otherwise, is far greater than the average person thinks. If people like Assmussen, Pletcher, Norman, etc are running into problems, it's not hard to expect that misuse at lower levels is far more prevalent.

At the same time, I think misuuse of drugs is less prevalent than the more jaded 'conspiracy-theorist' people say.

Since the sport is regulated at the state levels, the things I read about there needing to be federal-level oversight of medication use strikes me as senseless, empty rhetoric. It will not happen, or perhaps I should say it will surprise the hell out of me if it does happen. There are just too many dollars flowing to the various states and too many diverse state interests for me to believe there will be any movement in that direction.

I look at it this way. There is arguably some federal-level interest in a single set of regulations governing horse racing but to me it irrefutably pales in comparison to similar state-federal issues, most notably insurance.

The insurance industry dwarfs horse racing and while there are some federal mandates included in many insurance policies (ERISA, COBRA and treatment of certain conditions), the business is nearly totally state regulated.

I think it's possible, but not likely that there could be some positive outcomes if the NTRA or other nationally based industry group proposes model governing guidelines but only if there is sufficient interest at the state leves to press for their adoption.

The problem I see in applying this to racing is that the racing commissions seem to not have as much clout in their business as do the various state insurance commissioners.

I think the greatest hope is for continued high-profile suspensions and fines. I feel for good trainers who get "caught" with trivial overages, but at the same time it's potentially good in the long run if there is sufficient sentinel effect on other trainers. The downside of being in favor of stiffer penalties and fines is that I'm likely to be wrong and that misuse will just continue to grow especially at the lower levels of the sport irrespective of how many household name trainers get suspended.

I wish I was more optimistic.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

something as simple as celebrex can turn a loser into a winner.. the vast public thinks that the druging of horses is a syringe of cocaine or speed when in reality it just may be a slight dulling of joint pain like an asprin ..not meant to enhance ..just as a regular med.... then you get to the stuff that is a regular med for vets that given on the wrong day can pull a pos..

[2MinsToPost]

tonight i am having bob evans carryout for dinner -

pork roast with mashed taters, a slice of pie and i am gonna throw in some noodles i am gonna cook in a minute with some gaaahllliiicccccc

i enjoy reading arguements between people who actually know what they speak of, like StS, BTW, Oracle and others.

tonights game between KC and SD should be a good one, nighty night

Originally Posted by ELA

I understand your point, but to be honest, I think there was a bit of a bias there; and I am sure that I am not the only one who read it that way. Whatever your motive is or was, and regardless of whatever you were trying to infer, people read what they read and sometimes the "author" or origin plays into how they read it. The only difference is that I take it with a grain of salt and I don't care either way (no offense and in no way am I trivializing anything you've said).

Obviously you would stick up for your friends or clients, as would others. Nothing uncommon there. However, in this case I think you were off base. I could be wrong but I don't think Bruce Levine would be the same target as some of the "usual" and common targets. Levine shoots very well, is consistantly a high % trainer, has been on the backstretch for more than a quarter century, passed the 1000th win milestone in the past year, and I could be wrong on this but I don't think he has ever had a positive test.

I see your point, but I think it was misdirected and off target.

Eric

Eric,
You still don't get my point. I wasn't accusing Levine of anything. But it was a freak out race, granted one that had explanations, but a freak out race nonetheless. If Pletcher or Dutrow had one who jumped up like that, certain folks would still be howling over it.
I remember "one guy" who bitched about a horse of Dutrows this time last year on another board( ) who carried on for hours, it was a claimer who jumped up and ran a race like this who eventually got claimed away and won for the next trainer, and man was this guy livid about it.
Cheap horse freaked, today a cheap horse freaked and umm well, the guy didn't bitch, he made a perfectly rational explanation which I agred with. But the perception that these bitchers aren't biased(when they themselves accuse others of being biased) is a complete and total joke.

Eric the horses name that caused the hissy fit was Crafty Player, I just remembered it. very similiar to today, same time of year, same kind of quirky track, etc. Even was the first or 2nd race on a Sunday, very very similiar.
Yet today, no bitching. Guess everyone is biased to some extent on everything huh?

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eric,
You still don't get my point. I wasn't accusing Levine of anything. But it was a freak out race, granted one that had explanations, but a freak out race nonetheless. If Pletcher or Dutrow had one who jumped up like that, certain folks would still be howling over it.
I remember "one guy" who bitched about a horse of Dutrows this time last year on another board( ) who carried on for hours, it was a claimer who jumped up and ran a race like this who eventually got claimed away and won for the next trainer, and man was this guy livid about it.
Cheap horse freaked, today a cheap horse freaked and umm well, the guy didn't bitch, he made a perfectly rational explanation which I agred with. But the perception that these bitchers aren't biased(when they themselves accuse others of being biased) is a complete and total joke.

I do very much get your point. I don't have a problem with your point. Again, no offense whatsoever, I think your point was rather pointless, but that's just my opinion. The fact that you weren't accusing Bruce Levine of anything doesn't mean it didn't -- initially -- come across that way (before you gave your explanation and additional commentary).

I understand what you are saying and I think what contributed to me, and perhaps others, not getting your point is how you react when the commentary is about Dutrow, or one of your friends, clients, etc. -- that's all. You reference the that the bitchers are "biased" and I am sure you won't get an arguement on that (at least not from me). However, your own comments come with their own bias -- and in this case that may have been a contributory factor. Nothing wrong with that, it is what it is.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eric the horses name that caused the hissy fit was Crafty Player, I just remembered it. very similiar to today, same time of year, same kind of quirky track, etc. Even was the first or 2nd race on a Sunday, very very similiar.
Yet today, no bitching. Guess everyone is biased to some extent on everything huh?

Listen, I have no dog in this fight. Just to be clear, so there is nothing behind the curtain, I know Bruce Levine and have had horses in his barn for several years. That's it. We are not best friends, we don't vacation together with the wives or anything like that. Anyway, being that you weren't accusing him of anything, I am not defending him. But, in going on you reasoning, if this was a topic of conversation here -- do you really believe that droves of posters would make Bruce Levine out to be public enemy #1, or would he be the target of critisicm from the bettor, owner, competition, etc.? Should a guy like Bruce Levine be as big a target as some others? I know you don't believe that.

Anyway, I very clearly get that you weren't accusing Bruce Levine of anything. I get it. I really do. However, I think even your point was off base. Be that as it may, if other trainers -- one or several -- who are friends or clients of yours, are commonly a target or are "jumped on" all the time, etc. -- are you kidding me? The bias is virtually inherent. I think we all know that -- author, reader, whoever. I think that's part of the dynamic of a BB.

Eric

[Rupert Pupkin]

That inner-dirt track at Aqueduct is hit or miss. Some horses move way up on it and some horses don't like it at all. This horse obviously moved way up on it. You never know what to expect when a horse is running on it for the first time.

[ELA]

Inner, bias, track condition, and how many more things. LOL. I remember many years ago, a horseman who I have the utmost respect for told me that "horses make liars out of men" and that has only proven itself about a billion times or so. LOL.

Like I said, I thought this horse figured. I liked the inner, I liked the speed shown, and I like the cutback. I also think that the horse had the right to improve given the circumstances.

Eric