Trainers and drugs - Page 3

#41 12-13-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying on both sides of this argument...so understand that i am not taking sides...
but it isn't rocket science or even really chemisrty to learn and understand how to use drugs to your advantage in a horse...I'm no vet...nor am I a trainer...but i've been injecting horses for years, finding a vein in a horse is not difficult...injecting joints of course is a different story (should only be done by the vet)...but it's silly to suggest that a trainer wouldn't understand how to administer medications or understand what those medications do.

Well I think that trainers play dumb when it comes to this issue.

#42 12-13-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying on both sides of this argument...so understand that i am not taking sides...
but it isn't rocket science or even really chemisrty to learn and understand how to use drugs to your advantage in a horse...I'm no vet...nor am I a trainer...but i've been injecting horses for years, finding a vein in a horse is not difficult...injecting joints of course is a different story (should only be done by the vet)...but it's silly to suggest that a trainer wouldn't understand how to administer medications or understand what those medications do.

You're assuming that they all posess your intelligence and education. Again, you are giving them way too much credit in many cases.

#43 12-13-2006, 10:33 AM

I've said it and i'll say it again.

Scoldering coat hanger up the pisshole.

blackthroatedwind · #44 12-13-2006, 10:34 AM

The whole idea that all this joking is going on about trainers drugging their horses strikes me as curiously depressing.

Here's a fact...these guys are ruining the game we love. They are cheating honest trainers, owners and bettors out of the game. They are criminals...whoever they are.

All the covering up, and pretending it isn't serious or actually going on, has only allowed it to get worse. And it will continue to get worse.

#45 12-13-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole idea that all this joking is going on about trainers drugging their horses strikes me as curiously depressing.

Here's a fact...these guys are ruining the game we love. They are cheating honest trainers, owners and bettors out of the game. They are criminals...whoever they are.

All the covering up, and pretending it isn't serious or actually going on, has only allowed it to get worse. And it will continue to get worse.

I agree that it is an issue and I support a life time ban. I honestly do. Now, some of things that have been said in this thread light heartedly is sort of funny to me. But, I would be the first in line to support a life time ban.

blackthroatedwind · #46 12-13-2006, 10:40 AM

I think these criminals should face prison time. Hey, tampering with a sporting event is a federal crime, and that is what they are doing.

The Indomitable DrugS · #47 12-13-2006, 10:42 AM

Yes---but, you are assuming that the performance enhancers being used are illegal drugs...and I'm not entirely convinced that is the case.

#48 12-13-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think these criminals should face prison time. Hey, tampering with a sporting event is a federal crime, and that is what they are doing.

Huh, interesting thought right there. But I think a life time ban is the way to go. I also support a life time ban for those who get caught juicing in baseball or football.

#49 12-13-2006, 10:43 AM

I must've been in a coma because I don't recall there being a test for EPO. Until there is all of this bickering is pointless. You've had numerous trainers put in the detention barn with little to no change in their percentages. Why waste time and truckloads of money going after these "cheaters" when testing isn't 100% effective?

blackthroatedwind · #50 12-13-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes---but, you are assuming that the performance enhancers being used are illegal drugs...and I'm not entirely convinced that is the case.

Only not illegal because their existance is unclear.

Is snail venom illegal?

paisjpq · #51 12-13-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

You're assuming that they all posess your intelligence and education. Again, you are giving them way too much credit in many cases.

I don't think it takes education or intelligence...it's just a skill like any other...
for example: colicky horse, inject with banamine or buscopan...horse with arthritis, inject with legend and adequan...crazy horse, ace or resurpine...really sore/stiff horse, robaxin...coughing horse, ventipulmin...these are everyday things that any horse person eventually learns to do.
I don't think drugs belong in racing but they are impossible to avoid sometimes, simply to maintain the health of the animal and it is pointless to try to say that trainers don't know what they are.

The Indomitable DrugS · #52 12-13-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Only not illegal because their existance is unclear.

Is snail venom illegal?

I'm just saying....it's probably a little extreme to suggest "a lifetime ban" or "prison time" when we don't really even know, with exactitude, what the performance enhancers that are causing these over-night moveups are.

It's obvious which trainers have an edge....that's for sure. I also agree that what is going on is very bad for the game.

LARHAGE · #53 12-13-2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying on both sides of this argument...so understand that i am not taking sides...
but it isn't rocket science or even really chemisrty to learn and understand how to use drugs to your advantage in a horse...I'm no vet...nor am I a trainer...but i've been injecting horses for years, finding a vein in a horse is not difficult...injecting joints of course is a different story (should only be done by the vet)...but it's silly to suggest that a trainer wouldn't understand how to administer medications or understand what those medications do.

I was going to say the same thing, anyone who has horses in their care knows the essentials, which is how to administer medications whether they be oral or injectable. If I posted a picture of my barn medical cupboard you guys would think I was a mad scientist. The reality is you HAVE to know how to medicate horses, plain and simple, and the drugs and syringes are extremely easy to acquire from either a vet, a mail order catalog or a simple feed store.

paisjpq · #54 12-13-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I was going to say the same thing, anyone who has horses in their care knows the essentials, which is how to administer medications whether they be oral or injectable. If I posted a picture of my barn medical cupboard you guys would think I was a mad scientist. The reality is you HAVE to know how to medicate horses, plain and simple, and the drugs and syringes are extremely easy to acquire from either a vet, a mail order catalog or a simple feed store.

well said...and if the farm store doesn't have the size needles I'm looking for i go right to the pharmacist at the local grocery store and he will sell them to me...no questions asked.

cloud_break · #55 12-13-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I'm picturing his asst's there next to him standing guard like Bluto and Dday and going "HOLY ****" just like they did when the horse hits the ground with a thump. Then them running as fast as they can through the stable area.

I was thinking of them running away, and then stopping to go back and take the horse's halter (with name plate) off.

smartyalex · #56 12-13-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I was going to say the same thing, anyone who has horses in their care knows the essentials, which is how to administer medications whether they be oral or injectable. If I posted a picture of my barn medical cupboard you guys would think I was a mad scientist. The reality is you HAVE to know how to medicate horses, plain and simple, and the drugs and syringes are extremely easy to acquire from either a vet, a mail order catalog or a simple feed store.

Very well put!!!

#57 12-13-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes---but, you are assuming that the performance enhancers being used are illegal drugs...and I'm not entirely convinced that is the case.

ALways have been rumors about stuff being used not being techincally illegal because none really realizes what it is.
A famed South American trainer who operated in the US was always rumored to have had natural stuff that grew down below.
I think that EPO and blood doping(whether through EPO or blodd packing) was rampant in the late 90's and early 2000's.