1973 Preakness (UPDATE: Maryland accepts 1:53.0)

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Has DrugS posted his Exterminator dissertation yet? That would make for good reading.

Man O' War was blown way out of proportion.

He was not nearly as fast as people might think. Old Rosebud looked a little faster as a 2yo and Old Rosebud's Kentucky Derby was much, much faster than any Man O' War race except his Belmont.

Man O' War was by far and away the least tested of all the famous horses. His winning times in the Preakness and Travers were in fact, relatively weak compared to other races on the card. His competition he beat was brutally bad.

It's not MOW's fault that he was born into that crop at a time when horse racing was falling apart here because of diminishing purses and gambling outlawed in some key places -- but his connections campaigned him in an extremely unsportsmanlike fashion and most of his wins proved absolutely nothing.

[Indian Charlie]

All righty Drugs.

Who was better? The undefeated Hungarian Kinscem, or the undefeated German superstar Nordlicht?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

All righty Drugs.

Who was better? The undefeated Hungarian Kinscem, or the undefeated German superstar Nordlicht?

Hitler would have had Kinscem gassed if she beat Nordlicht.

I know nothing about German horse racing. You're asking the wrong guy.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Hitler would have had Kinscem gassed if she beat Nordlicht.

I know nothing about German horse racing. You're asking the wrong guy.

It doesn't seem likely Hitler owned that horse, but the rest of the story for the undefeated star is pretty odd. Taken as war booty, auctioned off to some Americans, including Penny Chenery's father, and becoming a roadside attraction is pretty odd.

How come no love on here for Buckpasser?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

How come no love on here for Buckpasser?

Because the thread is about the botched time of the 1973 Preakness and it hadn't spun off to him yet.

Undefeated anythings are almost always overrated.

The ROI on undefeated race horses after two or three races would be terrible.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Man O' War was blown way out of proportion.

He was not nearly as fast as people might think. Old Rosebud looked a little faster as a 2yo and Old Rosebud's Kentucky Derby was much, much faster than any Man O' War race except his Belmont.

Man O' War was by far and away the least tested of all the famous horses. His winning times in the Preakness and Travers were in fact, relatively weak compared to other races on the card. His competition he beat was brutally bad.

It's not MOW's fault that he was born into that crop at a time when horse racing was falling apart here because of diminishing purses and gambling outlawed in some key places -- but his connections campaigned him in an extremely unsportsmanlike fashion and most of his wins proved absolutely nothing.

it seems to me that the legends book on MOW said his first 6f time (in the travers) was the fastest internal time with the horse setting it still managing to win. it was something to that effect...some of his records stood for decades. he probably belongs somewhere between the deity he's taken to be, and the horse you take him to be. i don't think a horse would remain so highly thought of decades after racing if he was as over-rated as you suggest.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

It doesn't seem likely Hitler owned that horse, but the rest of the story for the undefeated star is pretty odd. Taken as war booty, auctioned off to some Americans, including Penny Chenery's father, and becoming a roadside attraction is pretty odd.

How come no love on here for Buckpasser?

give it time, a lot of horses haven't gotten mention yet. round table is one i feel just doesn't get as much respect as he should. definitely underrated.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it seems to me that the legends book on MOW said his first 6f time (in the travers) was the fastest internal time with the horse setting it still managing to win. it was something to that effect...some of his records stood for decades. he probably belongs somewhere between the deity he's taken to be, and the horse you take him to be. i don't think a horse would remain so highly thought of decades after racing if he was as over-rated as you suggest.

Regarding his Travers win ... Upset was 2nd beaten 2.5 lengths. That means Upset ran a figure 4 points less than Man O' War's.




Take a look at Upset's past performances and tell me if he looks like a fast horse?


The only other route race on that card was a selling race won by a filly with dismal form (race went 27 points slower than MoW's) and that filly (Marion Hollins) came back and finished a distant 6th in her next two starts, both in claimers.

Man O' War: 108
Upset: 104
Marion Hollins (cheap claiming filly) 81

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

No one who posts here (including myself) is even remotely qualified to talk about comparing and rating past European stars from the last 50 years.

The courses over there and the way everything is handled makes such speculation hopeless.

Ranking Euro horses is tough, no doubt about it...horses like Ribot, Sea Bird, Brigadier Gerard, and Mill Reef were indeed special however and deserving (imo) of high rankings. Same with old timers both in US and Euro such as Kincsem, Eclipse, St Simon, Ormonde and Pot 8 O's.

[Kasept]

Matt Hegarty‏@DRFHegarty: DRF and Pimlico have said they will recognize 1:53 as new 1973 Preakness time, giving Secretariat record in all three TC races.

[Calzone Lord]

1:53 and how many one-hundredths?

[slotdirt]

Good to hear, but why did it take 39 years when any idiot with multiple fingers and a stopwatch could have reached the same conclusion in 1973?

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

1:53 and how many one-hundredths?

1:53.18 per Dorothy Ours on FB.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Matt Hegarty‏@DRFHegarty: DRF and Pimlico have said they will recognize 1:53 as new 1973 Preakness time, giving Secretariat record in all three TC races.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

1:53.18 per Dorothy Ours on FB.

I used 1:53.40 to get his figure of 123 for the Preakness.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I used 1:53.40 to get his figure of 123 for the Preakness.

Not a Beyer expert or I guess I'd know this, but how does the .22sec shift affect your calculations?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Not a Beyer expert or I guess I'd know this, but how does the .22sec shift affect your calculations?

123 becomes 125.

[Calzone Lord]

What a great looking stride he had on him:

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

No one who posts here (including myself) is even remotely qualified to talk about comparing and rating past European stars from the last 50 years.

The courses over there and the way everything is handled makes such speculation hopeless.

While this is true, I have a hard time believing that horses like Lammtarra, Frankel, Sea the Stars, Zarkava, Goldikova, Miesque, and Dancing Brave wouldn't have places up pretty high on such lists.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

While this is true, I have a hard time believing that horses like Lammtarra, Frankel, Sea the Stars, Zarkava, Goldikova, Miesque, and Dancing Brave wouldn't have places up pretty high on such lists.

The wise men say "the palest ink is better than the best memory"

Good luck finding any pale ink that would competently allow anyone to rate and compare those horses with each other -- let alone with American dirt runners.