Rachel confirmed for Personal Ensign

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

This is likely.

Because years from now people will say things like, "hey, that 3rd-level allowance race that Anabaa's Creation ran 5th in before almost beating Zenyatta wasn't so bad after all, right? And those 15 straight races that Dance To My Tune lost before almost beating Zenyatta weren't so bad, right? I mean, give her some credit, she won a race in 2007!"

Problem is that Got Koko and Sightseek were actually good horses with proven records. Trying to compare them to the garbage that Zenyatta has beaten is laughable. And to try to think that "years after Zenyatta is retired," everyone will forget just what was behind Zenyatta is even more hilarious.

or they will see an undefeated mare that won 2 Breeders Cup Classics and not even question the animals she beat.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

This is likely.


Problem is that Got Koko and Sightseek were actually good horses with proven records. Trying to compare them to the garbage that Zenyatta has beaten is laughable. And to try to think that "years after Zenyatta is retired," everyone will forget just what was behind Zenyatta is even more hilarious.

There were few bigger fans of Azeri than I was but she never beat a field as good as last years classic, not even close really.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

There were few bigger fans of Azeri than I was but she never beat a field as good as last years classic, not even close really.

Top to bottom talent-wise, of course not.

But it's impossible to compare what Azeri beat on the dirt to what last year's Classic, the country's biggest "dirt" race, included in terms of talent when it was full of mostly non-dirt horses and was not run on dirt. Part of the game, yadda, yadda, I know that and have no problem with it. But saying that Gio Ponti and Twice Over rounding out a trifecta is better than anything Azeri beat in a race is an unsustainable comparison, because put all of them on the Churchill dirt, and you've got a good race, and then 20 lengths back to everything Zenyatta beat.

But again -- sticking the head in the sand and hanging a hat on one career race to try to prove eternal greatness just won't cut it....didn't cut it for HOY of the last year and won't cut it for future thinking on Zenyatta, which is why races throughout the year matter, and why these garbage races against garbage opponents don't stack up at ALL to what Azeri did.

As Doug said earlier, and I've said probably here and several other places in the recent past -- she may well be GREAT. She may well be one of the greatest horses to ever live; she certainly seems to have the talent to fulfill all of the hyperbole and mouth breathing we hear from her fans -- but I want to see it, I don't just want to take everyone's word for it. And so far, she has about 1.5 races in her cap that actually make her important, and a bunch of other ones in which she beat horses I would have a chance of dead-heating with jumping in a potato sack.

Show me how great she is. Alas, being undefeated is what they clearly care about more at this point in time, and that's a feat to be commended -- but it doesn't make people wondering about her rightful place in history "haters," it makes them analytical because we actually want to see something great before we anoint something great.

[DaTruth]

When the quality of the field that Zenyatta beat in the Classic is called into question, her supporters often point out that a Derby winner and a Belmont winner were in that field. Usually forgotten is that Azeri also beat a Derby winner (Funny Cide) and a Belmont winner (Birdstone) when she ran 5th behind Ghostzapper in the 2004 Classic.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Top to bottom talent-wise, of course not.

But it's impossible to compare what Azeri beat on the dirt to what last year's Classic, the country's biggest "dirt" race, included in terms of talent when it was full of mostly non-dirt horses and was not run on dirt. Part of the game, yadda, yadda, I know that and have no problem with it. But saying that Gio Ponti and Twice Over rounding out a trifecta is better than anything Azeri beat in a race is an unsustainable comparison, because put all of them on the Churchill dirt, and you've got a good race, and then 20 lengths back to everything Zenyatta beat.

But again -- sticking the head in the sand and hanging a hat on one career race to try to prove eternal greatness just won't cut it....didn't cut it for HOY of the last year and won't cut it for future thinking on Zenyatta, which is why races throughout the year matter, and why these garbage races against garbage opponents don't stack up at ALL to what Azeri did.

As Doug said earlier, and I've said probably here and several other places in the recent past -- she may well be GREAT. She may well be one of the greatest horses to ever live; she certainly seems to have the talent to fulfill all of the hyperbole and mouth breathing we hear from her fans -- but I want to see it, I don't just want to take everyone's word for it. And so far, she has about 1.5 races in her cap that actually make her important, and a bunch of other ones in which she beat horses I would have a chance of dead-heating with jumping in a potato sack.

Show me how great she is. Alas, being undefeated is what they clearly care about more at this point in time, and that's a feat to be commended -- but it doesn't make people wondering about her rightful place in history "haters," it makes them analytical because we actually want to see something great before we anoint something great.

well she will get a chance to prove something to you on dirt at CD like you say. I have no clue what you would say if she wins, or heck runs great in that race because no 6 year old has ever won it, heck no horse has ever won 3 breeders cup races, heck no horse has even who two different events in the BC, and surely none has done it over two different surfaces (syn and dirt, or turn and dirt).

Heres hoping, would be the meltdown of all meltdowns on this board.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

well she will get a chance to prove something to you on dirt at CD like you say. I have no clue what you would say if she wins, or heck runs great in that race because no 6 year old has ever won it, heck no horse has ever won 3 breeders cup races, heck no horse has even who two different events in the BC, and surely none has done it over two different surfaces (syn and dirt, or turn and dirt).

Heres hoping, would be the meltdown of all meltdowns on this board.

No melt down, just no reply. They would act like it never happened.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

well she will get a chance to prove something to you on dirt at CD like you say. I have no clue what you would say if she wins, or heck runs great in that race because no 6 year old has ever won it, heck no horse has ever won 3 breeders cup races, heck no horse has even who two different events in the BC, and surely none has done it over two different surfaces (syn and dirt, or turn and dirt).

Heres hoping, would be the meltdown of all meltdowns on this board.

And what will you say when she doesn't even run in the BCC?

Or should I say if she doesn't.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

And what will you say when she doesn't even run in the BCC?

Or should I say if she doesn't.

that its too bad she got hurt...that would be the only reason.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

that its too bad she got hurt...that would be the only reason.

i doubt she goes. everything was set up perfect for her to attempt the classic last year. no one else in the field had excelled on that surface, it was her home track. the best older horse in the field was a turf horse. the best euro in the field was also a turfer. the top three year old had lost twice to rachel, and had never attempted an awt before.
this year? she'd have to ship further than she's shipped in years, it will be a surface she's never raced on. she'll have legitimate competition, proven on that surface. i hope she shows, but i don't trust that they will take her there.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

that its too bad she got hurt...that would be the only reason.

You must forgive Indian Charlie, I'm beginning to wonder if he is indeed a Zenyatta fan, he mentions her in more posts per capita than just about any other poster here. It's not even close between him and Smooth Operator.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by CSC

You must forgive Indian Charlie, I'm beginning to wonder if he is indeed a Zenyatta fan, he mentions her in more posts per capita than just about any other poster here. It's not even close between him and Smooth Operator.

Not only are you delusional, you also have very poor math skills.

[Indian Charlie]

And what the hell do you mean by per capita?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Not only are you delusional, you also have very poor math skills.

I'll never be misconstrued with Issac Newton or Pythagoras, however you do seem to have an obession with posting about her. You don't have to have an abundance of rationality to notice this.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

And what the hell do you mean by per capita?

Well the latin term translates into "by head" basically meaning average.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

There were few bigger fans of Azeri than I was but she never beat a field as good as last years classic, not even close really.

she never beat a field like it... but her 5th in the classic wasnt that bad. In fact anybody who ran in last years classic (including Z) would have had a hard time finishing 5th to that Ghostzapper classic.

[slotdirt]

That 2004 Classic was loaded.