Joel Rosario

[Danzig]

there are horses who don't like inside, maybe he was instructed to not take the horse up the rail. it's conceivable that this is what happened.
it's also in the realm of possibility that had he gone up the rail, he'd have still lost-champs tends to loaf on the lead-perhaps adding to a possible illusion that obrigado was gaining/had a chance.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Danzig

there are horses who don't like inside, maybe he was instructed to not take the horse up the rail. it's conceivable that this is what happened.
it's also in the realm of possibility that had he gone up the rail, he'd have still lost-champs tends to loaf on the lead-perhaps adding to a possible illusion that obrigado was gaining/had a chance.

I am pretty sure the horse doesnt mind the inside. Obrigado was inside sitting nicely for a good part of the race. If he did mind the inside then Rosario would not have tucked in....as instructed.

In my opinion, no way in hell CE would have passed Obrigado. Valdivia was all over him in the stretch, it's not like he won easily. CE is a nice horse...but is not the dominant horse some on here think. His win up at WDB was against a very weak field. He then came back to lose up there to a horse who ran pretty poor next out. I guess some of the geniuses on here didnt go back and notice that CE didnt beat Obrigado by much when they met in The San Marcos earlier this year. I believe one person on here claimed CE was "20 lengths better than Obrigado". I am glad people like that bet money into wagering pools.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I wasn't aware as a bettor i needed years of experience as a jockey or trainer in order to have an opinion on race watching. My mistake. When did you ride? How many winners did you have as trainer? What's your personal website with all of the hits?

And since you're under the delusion that all opinions carry equal weight, should we have a poll? Who's opinion people here would rather bet their money on, mine or yours?

What if Dala was Frankie Dettori?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I wasn't aware as a bettor i needed years of experience as a jockey or trainer in order to have an opinion on race watching. My mistake. When did you ride? How many winners did you have as trainer? What's your personal website with all of the hits?

And since you're under the delusion that all opinions carry equal weight, should we have a poll? Who's opinion people here would rather bet their money on, mine or yours?

all I have to do is check out Dala's opinion of Donavan McNabb to know who I'd choose

I bet she thinks McNabb beat the Giants all by himself yesterday.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Scav

What if Dala was Frankie Dettori?

Than I'd be scared of Philski's opinion saying shes hot...

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I wasn't aware as a bettor i needed years of experience as a jockey or trainer in order to have an opinion on race watching. My mistake. When did you ride? How many winners did you have as trainer? What's your personal website with all of the hits?

And since you're under the delusion that all opinions carry equal weight, should we have a poll? Who's opinion people here would rather bet their money on, mine or yours?

LOL. If you are going to attempt to dismiss the validity of another poster's opinion you should probably have more juice. Does that make your opinion invalid? No, of course not. But it doesnt make it any more valid than mine or anyone else's.

The bottom line is that if its Steve or Andy or Chuck or Eric or someone else in a similar position telling me im wrong about my opinion on a race, i would be inclined to listen and accept that im probably wrong. Why would i do that with you? LOL

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'll give you that everything you say is possible. I have just seen enough of Champs to think that if Obrigado had gotten first jump, he would have probably won. I also never said he should go up the rail. If you watch the race, I think the very winning move Champs made, Obrigado could have also. Sort of an inside out move.

At no point throughout this ridiculous thread have i said Rosario is a bad rider or anything like that. Up to the point of his decision he had ridden a flawless race, per instructions I'm sure. I just think he made a poor choice and it cost him the win. I don't expect Vic to agree, and it's fine, if i was Rosario's agent, I wouldn't post my rider made a error in judgement on a message board either.

like i said, it's possible for all that i wrote to be the case. i also think that going wide cost the horse the win. BUT since he was a decided longshot, i doubt many are surprised he didn't win-but i'm sure the line to this thread would be much longer had rosario been on the fave.
but it's also possible that regardless of ride/trip, that horse wouldn't win. too often we've seen folks get hung up on the second place horse-that had he moved a bit sooner, he'd have surely won at the end. then they bet the horse back, and whooops-they see why the horse was a long shot last time out, and deservedly so.

[GBBob]

I only hope that Rosario never takes a TAP horse wide who ends up testing positive....

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I only hope that Rosario never takes a TAP horse wide who ends up testing positive....

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Did Smooth Operator steal your login? What's with all the LOL's?

So let me see if I understand you correctly. If someone tells you you're opinion is wrong you don't agree, unless it's someone who you are okay with telling you you're wrong. Interesting line of thinking....

Just so we're all clear for any future arguements we might have, could you please list people with more juice than I have so I can consult them? Thanks in advance.

LOL You are going on about how much weight your opinion carries and I simply was explaining to you why your opinion doesnt carry much weight or rather enough weight to make me question my own formed opinion. You arent any racing insider or anything. You are just a fan/bettor just like me and anyone else-nothing more, nothing less. Someone like Chuck Simon, who actually gives riders instructions and makes his living in the game, carries enough weight with me on the subject of horse racing to know that he is probably always going to be right if we disagree on the subject.

Who are you that your opinion is so valuable and that I am wrong to disagree with you? What have you done in this sport that makes your opinion and thoughts more valid than mine? Please let me know. Maybe i have it all wrong and you really are in a position of knowledge that i never perceived in reading your posts. But if you arent, spare me the bully tactics because it will do you no good.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I really think you need to go bug Drysdale about this inside /outside situation. A young rider given an instruction to give the horse a clear path outside in a Grade 1 is probably gunna follow it. If he was gunna consider ignoring the instructions, then I think that thought may have been gone when Smullen made that rushed move to cut Rosario off into the 1st turn. You said he panicked, and went outside. All signs appear he didn't make the decision then. He had already planned to go outside. He won 5 Saturday. Then, he won a 300k race in Puerto Rico yesterday. The fact he got even close to winning this race is because he somehow got this horse to calm down on the backstretch. He won 5, and I think he would of won 6 if he had the horse. That's just my opinion of that Grade 1 Saturday. He has a clear shot outside of horses, and can't get it done when C.E. could. I mean you ignore the fact he has no answer for the move C.E. makes in the stretch. Joel gets an inferior horse to make up ground on a horse who no longer has a target. I want to see someone else do as well now with this horse in a Grade 1, because, in a Grade 1, this jock did not have much horse to start with. Hey, I am gunna tell you honestly that I am not a huge believer in this guy on chalk yet. So, it's not like(to me) he can do no wrong, but really you're taking issue with somebody who is doing a lot with horses that are not the best animals in these races.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I really think you need to go bug Drysdale about this inside /outside situation. A young rider given an instruction to give the horse a clear path outside in a Grade 1 is probably gunna follow it. If he was gunna consider ignoring the instructions, then I think that thought may have been gone when Smullen made that rushed move to cut Rosario off into the 1st turn. You said he panicked, and went outside. All signs appear he didn't make the decision then. He had already planned to go outside. He won 5 Saturday. Then, he won a 300k race in Puerto Rico yesterday. The fact he got even close to winning this race is because he somehow got this horse to calm down on the backstretch. He won 5, and I think he would of won 6 if he had the horse. That's just my opinion of that Grade 1 Saturday. He has a clear shot outside of horses, and can't get it done when C.E. could. I mean you ignore the fact he has no answer for the move C.E. makes in the stretch. Joel gets an inferior horse to make up ground on a horse who no longer has a target. I want to see someone else do as well now with this horse in a Grade 1, because, in a Grade 1, this jock did not have much horse to start with. Hey, I am gunna tell you honestly that I am not a huge believer in this guy on chalk yet. So, it's not like(to me) he can do no wrong, but really you're taking issue with somebody who is doing a lot with horses that are not the best animals in these races.

good point, good post. perhaps instead of getting grief for not winning, the jock deserves kudos for getting a long shot to finish second.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I really think you should start taking your medication more regularly. What is so hard for you guys to understand? I mean really. All I have been trying to say is I thought his decision to come off the inside and go OUTside of Winchester was a poor one and cost him the race. Who cares how many he won on Saturday? What does that have to do with anything?

I already said i thought he rode a great race up to the point of the decision. To think he didn't have the horse is to ignore the fact the horse took off again in stretch and almost caught Champs. I'm not taking any issue with his overall riding, he's a fine rider. Just one decision that cost him the race IMO? Why is that so hard to understand?

And because his opinion is different he needs medication? LOL

Just because you have 12,500 posts it doesnt make your opinion any more valid.

Perhaps you can challenge scuds as well to an opinion validity contest.

Or perhaps you can take a deep breathe and realize that it really doesnt matter.

But, back to racing, its not like Champs was life and death in the stretch.

[geeker2]

Dala one more post from you here and I am going to take back the Very Impressive rating I gave you

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

like i said, it's possible for all that i wrote to be the case. i also think that going wide cost the horse the win. BUT since he was a decided longshot, i doubt many are surprised he didn't win-but i'm sure the line to this thread would be much longer had rosario been on the fave.
but it's also possible that regardless of ride/trip, that horse wouldn't win. too often we've seen folks get hung up on the second place horse-that had he moved a bit sooner, he'd have surely won at the end. then they bet the horse back, and whooops-they see why the horse was a long shot last time out, and deservedly so.

That is indeed the point and you make it extremely well. We will never know what would have happened because there are too many variables and it is unquantifiable how much benefit the continued momentum gave Obrigado and it is impossible to know if the hole would have closed up to the inside.

If his instructions were indeed to take the horse out around the turn, getting shut off trying to stay inside would have much more far reaching consequences than just that race.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I have to say, getting you to play the victim role might be my finest work on this site.

I award myself OOOOOOOOOO

You are short about OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O's



It's amazing how such a simple concept of ground saving can cause people to become so confused.

I am going to sleep better tonight knowing people like Dalahkani bet into the wagering pools.

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Anytime Vic. 5 wins is nice. But too bad he didnt win the big race. His move on the turn cost the horse the race....but hopefully you will go over the race with him and point out his mistake and make him a better jockey.

I'm 6'4' 290lbs. What the heck am I going to say to him about riding racehorses?

I think he'll be fine. If working hard and being a good person helps then I KNOW he'll be fine.

Picked up mounts in two upcoming Grade 1's today. We're really looking forward to that.

Excellent thread continues.

VJS

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I'm 6'4' 290lbs. What the heck am I going to say to him about riding racehorses?

I think he'll be fine. If working hard and being a good person helps then I KNOW he'll be fine.

Picked up mounts in two upcoming Grade 1's today. We're really looking forward to that.

Excellent thread continues.

VJS

Good luck to you and your jockey Vic. I have been watching him for a while now and his ROI has been up there with the best.

Cheers.

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I'm 6'4' 290lbs. What the heck am I going to say to him about riding racehorses?

I think he'll be fine. If working hard and being a good person helps then I KNOW he'll be fine.

Picked up mounts in two upcoming Grade 1's today. We're really looking forward to that.

Excellent thread continues.

VJS

DerbyCat and I both took note of Joel Rosario's riding abilities up here in NorCal a couple of meets back.

It's always nice to note an unknown jockey with talent before the rest of the world does.

Especially when betting exotics.

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

DerbyCat and I both took note of Joel Rosario's riding abilities up here in NorCal a couple of meets back.

It's always nice to note an unknown jockey with talent before the rest of the world does.

Especially when betting exotics.

The less unknown he is the better I'm doing my job. I'm going to miss living the better part of the year in Marin. It's home.

Thanks for the props for Joel.