Grasshopper ? ? ?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I think you are wrong here, and jcs is right.
This whole business about being "fully cranked" is a usually a bunch of nonsense in my opinion, but to the extent that a trainer can try to have a horse peak on a particular day, I find it nearly impossible to believe that the connections would not want a horse to be at a peak for the Travers.
The connections wouldn't know for sure what the field would be for a race until just days before the race. Do you really think that any trainer would not try to have a horse at his best for the Travers, simply because he guesses weeks in advance that it might not be a great field? That seems unlikely.

This isnt 1968 its 2008. The travers isnt that big of a deal anymore. Still, its a nice race to win but with stake races in the fall, the BC is the ultimate goal.

Nafzger looked at the nominations list weeks in advance and he pretty much knew weeks in advance who wasnt coming meaning Hard Spun and Curlin. That being the case, who did he have to worry about? And if he didnt have anything to worry about, why crank him to his very best when his very best wasnt necessary???????????

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This isnt 1968 its 2008. The travers isnt that big of a deal anymore. Still, its a nice race to win but with stake races in the fall, the BC is the ultimate goal.

Nafzger looked at the nominations list weeks in advance and he pretty much knew weeks in advance who wasnt coming meaning Hard Spun and Curlin. That being the case, who did he have to worry about? And if he didnt have anything to worry about, why crank him to his very best when his very best wasnt necessary???????????

Again, I think you might be overestimating exactly how much control a trainer has over when he or she can magically call on a horse's peak performance, but for the sake of argument, let's assume for the moment that you are right and they really can do that. Are you really telling me that you think Nafzer wanted Street Sense to be less than his best in the Travers? No way.

And if by some miracle you actually are right about that, I guess the Breeders' Cup is killing the sport more than even Breeders' Cup haters like me thought it was.

[dalakhani]

[quote=miraja2]Again, I think you might be overestimating exactly how much control a trainer has over when he or she can magically call on a horse's peak performance, but for the sake of argument, let's assume for the moment that you are right and they really can do that. Are you really telling me that you think Nafzer wanted Street Sense to be less than his best in the Travers? No way.

And if by some miracle you actually are right about that, I guess the Breeders' Cup is killing the sport more than even Breeders' Cup haters like me thought it was.[/QUOTE]

It is killing the sport, no doubt about it and I share in your hate of it.


Nafzger is a master horseman and having a horse peak at just the right time is what he is payed to do. And he has proven time and again that that is the way he handles his horses. Is it full proof? No, of course not. But if you dont think the type of regiment the trainer employs will have an effect on the type of performance he wants out of the horse, well, we will just have to disagree.

As for the Travers thing, again, horse racing has changed dramatically even in the last couple of years. These arent deep fields and the horses only have so many races that they can run. You dont prepare for the "travers" like you do for the "derby" or the "bcc". The travers last year was no better than a grade 3 in traditional fields and Nafzger knew it long before the race. Again, why would he crank him up for mediocre competition regardless of the name of the race????????????????

[Bobby Fischer]

Street Sense was simply not that dominant of a horse that he would crush a decent allowance horse without momentum or a stamina edge. In the Travers he had neither and had to win by a slim talent edge. In the derby SS had a perfect ride and perfect pace and was facing mostly 8.5 furlong race horses.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Street Sense was simply not that dominant of a horse that he would crush a decent allowance horse without momentum or a stamina edge. In the Travers he had neither and had to win by a slim talent edge. In the derby SS had a perfect ride and perfect pace and was facing mostly 8.5 furlong race horses.

So the derby had fewer 10f horses than the travers? I dont think that is what you meant but if you could clairify.

Street Sense could crush a decent allowance field. Dont be mistaken.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

yeah? And what did he beat in that? Ive got to hear this.

I never claimed anything about Grasshopper...you said he never won anything but a maiden and allowance and that was clearly an incorrect assertion. He could have beaten 3 cows, 2 goats, and 5 members of this board running in the Mineshaft but he still won a stakes.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

So the derby had fewer 10f horses than the travers? I dont think that is what you meant but if you could clairify.

Street Sense could crush a decent allowance field. Dont be mistaken.

street sense is retired.

And the Travers WAS a decent allowance field.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

So the derby had fewer 10f horses than the travers? I dont think that is what you meant but if you could clairify.

Street Sense could crush a decent allowance field. Dont be mistaken.

dude you are so wrong about the travers, HE WAS FULLY CRANKED. i dont even get why your still arguing it, it was the main goal after the preakness loss, why do you think they skipped the belmont, and prepped for 500k less in the dandy...

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

dude you are so wrong about the travers, HE WAS FULLY CRANKED. i dont even get why your still arguing it, it was the main goal after the preakness loss, why do you think they skipped the belmont, and prepped for 500k less in the dandy...

Yes, he was fully cranked to face grasshopper sightseeing and cp west. LOL.

Why do i even engage?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

street sense is retired.

And the Travers WAS a decent allowance field.

And if it was necessary, Nafzger would have had him ready to crush it.

Was the BC Juvey a decent allowance field because he looked like he crushed that.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And if it was necessary, Nafzger would have had him ready to crush it.

Was the BC Juvey a decent allowance field because he looked like he crushed that.

Nafzger had him cranked for teh BC Juvey

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Yes, he was fully cranked to face grasshopper sightseeing and cp west. LOL.

Why do i even engage?

you should not engage, anyone saying a horse was not fully cranked for the travers, just does not understand the game

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

you should not engage, anyone saying a horse was not fully cranked for the travers, just does not understand the game

I actually agree with you that he was probably fully cranked for the Travers. . . Nafzger's famous for preparing his horses to fire on big days. . . BUT, I don't think the Street Sense we saw in the summer and fall was the same one we saw in the BC Juvie and the Derby.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

you should not engage, anyone saying a horse was not fully cranked for the travers, just does not understand the game

This is indeed a harsh indictment coming from such a knowledgable contributor. Your expertise shines through with every post in any topic.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I actually agree with you that he was probably fully cranked for the Travers. . . Nafzger's famous for preparing his horses to fire on big days. . . BUT, I don't think the Street Sense we saw in the summer and fall was the same one we saw in the BC Juvie and the Derby.

i agree with that, but for someone to sit here and continue to say a horse was not fully ready for the travers is a joke in my opinion, and makes me wonder what that person really knows about this game

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i agree with that, but for someone to sit here and continue to say a horse was not fully ready for the travers is a joke in my opinion, and makes me wonder what that person really knows about this game

Thats fine, but thats not as big of a joke as saying that Grasshopper was some kind of monster at three that somehow soured over the winter between three and four.

But hey, Nafzger routinely gets his horses all ready to fire their best when they have to face the cp wests of the world.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I actually agree with you that he was probably fully cranked for the Travers. . . Nafzger's famous for preparing his horses to fire on big days. . . BUT, I don't think the Street Sense we saw in the summer and fall was the same one we saw in the BC Juvie and the Derby.

nafzger gets his horses as ready as they need to be. Thats why he is the horseman that he is.

If you think he had him ready to fire his best shot against cp west, sightseeing and grasshopper i have to disagree. But...thats nothing i havent already said.

[Bobby Fischer]

I wasn't fully cranked this morning

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

I wasn't fully cranked this morning

You might want to discuss that with your urologist.

[Linny]

Or your wife...