Dutrow running one off 2 days rest - Page 4

MaTH716 · #61 06-30-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

I have seen this done before when a horse was pulled up for some equipment reason etc...in the first race, or just won so easily that the animal did not exert itself. But right now with all the crap going on... if the horse had won, it would have been a notable wow he knows his horses.
But the animal broke its leg. And yes the outcome is very significant. It was a risky move by a guy who does care to grasp what has now become a snowballing situation. Right or wrong.

Point taken, but the talk would have been negative too. It would have been about the magic potion he must have to bring a horse back 2 days later and win. So to be fair it really is a no win situation for him.

parsixfarms · #62 06-30-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

To be fair how many starters has Dutrow had?

He's had about 350 so far this year. Even if we assume that he had 700 last year, it seems to me that 5% of his starters on such short rest is a pretty high number. In NY, the only other trainers that I can think of running a significant number of horses back on such short rest are Contessa and Leo O'Brien.

freddymo · #63 06-30-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

He's had about 350 so far this year. Even if we assume that he had 700 last year, it seems to me that 5% of his starters on such short rest is a pretty high number. In NY, the only other trainers that I can think of running a significant number of horses back on such short rest are Contessa and Leo O'Brien.

If you do something 5% of the time it is deemed infrequent..So are you saying 95% of the time his horses race on what we deem appropiate rest? I would argue 5% of the time is never something you can label as abusive.

GBBob · #64 06-30-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Luck who needs luck I have DrugS... If we lose I will make him pay the bills.. i only win he is in for the losses

Is that Top Royelle?

sumitas · #65 06-30-2008, 09:25 AM

Freddy, 5% is cause for concern. We're talking 7 or less days for a start, right ? I don't think that is ever appropriate as in 0%.

parsixfarms · #66 06-30-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

If you do something 5% of the time it is deemed infrequent..So are you saying 95% of the time his horses race on what we deem appropiate rest? I would argue 5% of the time is never something you can label as abusive.

I didn't say it was abusive, but even if it's only 5%, I think it is still far above the norm.

freddymo · #67 06-30-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

Is that Top Royelle?

Hopefully that mare never sees claimers again.. We are hoping to breed her next year especially if she wins a few bucks for us in allowance races. DrugS likes her page and apparently the sire is coming on and had a G2 winner this weekend. Her dam side isn't half bad either.

We claimed some low level claimer a few weeks ago as well that who I was referring to..

GBBob · #68 06-30-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Hopefully that mare never sees claimers again.. We are hoping to breed her next year especially if she wins a few bucks for us in allowance races. DrugS likes her page and apparently the sire is coming on and had a G2 winner this weekend. Her dam side isn't half bad either.

We claimed some low level claimer a few weeks ago as well that who I was referring to..

I told Doug the same thing..Good luck with her. I enjoyed the time she was with Chuck and was sad to see her claimed, even for the $22K tag, which wasn't half bad. Always hoped to see her on the lawn at AP, but wasn't meant to be.

freddymo · #69 06-30-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

Freddy, 5% is cause for concern. We're talking 7 or less days for a start, right ? I don't think that is ever appropriate as in 0%.

Why they are race horses? When they come out of a race in great shape and act well the next few days it isn't ridiculous to race them back quickly, just not all the time.. If a horse makes 20 starts in a year and 1 of the 20 is on 4 days rest(5%) its hardly a offensive crime against an animal IMO

freddymo · #70 06-30-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

I told Doug the same thing..Good luck with her. I enjoyed the time she was with Chuck and was sad to see her claimed, even for the $22K tag, which wasn't half bad. Always hoped to see her on the lawn at AP, but wasn't meant to be.

Thx will see if it is meant to be.. DrugS and I will be getting a few together as long as it's fun.. I am not married to any horse but I can't seem to get rid of DrugS..

parsixfarms · #71 06-30-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why they are race horses? When they come out of a race in great shape and act well the next few days it isn't ridiculous to race them back quickly, just not all the time.. If a horse makes 20 starts in a year and 1 of the 20 is on 4 days rest(5%) its hardly a offensive crime against an animal IMO

Please find me a horse that makes 20 starts a year that isn't racing at a place like Finger Lakes.

freddymo · #72 06-30-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Please find me a horse that makes 20 starts a year that isn't racing at a place like Finger Lakes.

Just looked through the PP's from Belmont for wedsnesday and thursday.. Only Executive Search but of the 18 races most of the races feature horses that couldn't have possibly started 20 times nmaidens etc.

parsixfarms · #73 06-30-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Just looked through the PP's from Belmont for wedsnesday and thursday.. Only Executive Search but of the 18 races most of the races feature horses that couldn't have possibly started 20 times nmaidens etc.

I think you missed my drift. I wasn't asking you to necessarily find me an example. I was saying that I'd like to have one in our stable.

Cannon Shell · #74 06-30-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Hopefully that mare never sees claimers again.. We are hoping to breed her next year especially if she wins a few bucks for us in allowance races. DrugS likes her page and apparently the sire is coming on and had a G2 winner this weekend. Her dam side isn't half bad either.

We claimed some low level claimer a few weeks ago as well that who I was referring to..

Her pedigree is an interesting though light on the US commercial side. Royal Applause has had an unusual sire profile as almost all of his better progeney are colts and geldings. Ticker Tape being an obvious exception.

Sightseek · #75 06-30-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I think you missed my drift. I wasn't asking you to necessarily find me an example. I was saying that I'd like to have one in our stable.

It's pretty crazy when you realize that not only did Colin retire undefeated, but the schedule he was given, and the weight he carried was downright amazing. (he raced multiple times off 3 or 4 days rest)

Linny · #76 06-30-2008, 11:07 AM

Remember, the Derby Trial used to really be a KY Derby prep and was run on the Tuesday of Derby week.
Man O War began is career on June 6th and returned on June 9th. His third start was June 21st and his 4th was June 23rd! He then ran on July 4th and was laid off til Saratoga. There he ran on Aug 2nd, 13th, 23rd and 30th.
His schedule was nothing out for the ordinary for a colt (even a top class colt) of his era.
I'm sure with a bit more time and a copy of Champions I could find plenty more.

As for Golden Man. He was (is) a useful race horse but was hardly a star in the making. Most "good looking" 3yo's end up in modest company at best. The horse that nearly beat Lion Heart in NJ a few years back broke down for a $5k tag last summer.

Sightseek · #77 06-30-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

Remember, the Derby Trial used to really be a KY Derby prep and was run on the Tuesday of Derby week.
Man O War began is career on June 6th and returned on June 9th. His third start was June 21st and his 4th was June 23rd! He then ran on July 4th and was laid off til Saratoga. There he ran on Aug 2nd, 13th, 23rd and 30th.
His schedule was nothing out for the ordinary for a colt (even a top class colt) of his era.
I'm sure with a bit more time and a copy of Champions I could find plenty more.

As for Golden Man. He was (is) a useful race horse but was hardly a star in the making. Most "good looking" 3yo's end up in modest company at best. The horse that nearly beat Lion Heart in NJ a few years back broke down for a $5k tag last summer.

My Snookie's Boy

sumitas · #78 06-30-2008, 11:13 AM

My question is. How can it hurt a horse to have at least 2 weeks between starts ? It can certainly help a horse. Especially Unrequited.

Linny · #79 06-30-2008, 11:23 AM

I have no idea if the horse in question broke down because of the short rest or not. Certainly he wouldn't have done so in his stall, but that means nothing.
He probably would be alive now had he not raced but was he going to break next time anyhow? Can a potentially fatal "pending injury" be fixed with 2 weeks off? Based on the worktab, he was trying to get the horse claimed and kick the broken can down the lane to the next unsuspecting trainer. Now, I agree that that's neither "nice" nor entirely humane but Rick isn't the only one guilty of such stuff. It happens all the time and is done by elite barns as well as modest claiming operations.

freddymo · #80 06-30-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Her pedigree is an interesting though light on the US commercial side. Royal Applause has had an unusual sire profile as almost all of his better progeney are colts and geldings. Ticker Tape being an obvious exception.

I think I could get a deal on Stormy Atlantic at 25 to 30k its a nice match.. Will see