NYRA increases purses

[blackthroatedwind]

As usual, Eric cuts through the BS, and posts the definitive response.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by ELA

Everytime this discussion, or arguement takes place -- every single time -- I think it's crystal clear as to who understands the actual and substanative issues; and who is more oriented toward "the noise" -- the propaganda, and whatever else you want to call it. Anyone who comes from a place of getting rid of NYRA because they have failed, and bringing in someone who can build a successful business model, clearly doesn't understand anything about the economic and political environment of not only NY racing, but the entire industry. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, and in saying that I mean no offense to anyone and it's not meant to be riduculing in any way. However, it does point out that it is extremely difficult to have an intelligent, meaningful conversation when people are on two completely different planes of knowledge.

NYRA declaring bankruptcy is not a measure of their financial prowess or lack thereof. It's not cause and effect. It was, in part, very simply a strategic move and I think some people are upset not that NYRA did it, but more so that it actually worked. Think about that. The bankruptcy is however very and extermely indicative of the current political and legislative landscape that any franchise operator would have to operate under. It was not NYRA's business model that was broken. Yes, the propaganda will talk about expense accounts, NY Bred races, the taxpayers -- and while I don't mean to trivialize any issues, those are not the real issues. The critics and the people who are absent of facts and understanding must make it those items the issues. NYRA's business model -- any business model, in the current environment, would fail.

How many of these bidders were considering the franchise before the VLT legislation was passed? How many bidders were throwing their hat in the ring before the state legislature agreed to change the laws that make it impossible for anyone to operate the tracks in a prudent, dilligent and "profitable" form and fashion? For the first time, the state (or at least part of it, LOL) is actually looking to work with the various components of the industry and be part of the solution.

This is not about NYRA, although some people tend to make so. This entire situation is not a NYRA issue -- it's an industry issue. It's about archaic laws that were once feasible. However, the world has changed, and NY Racing -- not just NYRA -- has been dying a slow death. Like an old car that gets real old real fast, the death has been accelerated. NYRA has made mistakes, like CD, Magna, Woodbine, Delaware North, Empire, Excelsior, Capital Play, and so on. Everyone on the rosters have made mistakes -- just like all of us.

I think people need to set aside the sour grapes, animosity, hostility, and everything else -- and truly understand the issues and look to what is best for the sport and the industry.

Eric

Mr Eric that was a well organized, cogent, well thought out post........................OVER RULED

You are as Bill Parcells once said what your record is and NYRA is poor.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

As usual, Eric cuts through the BS, and posts the definitive response.

Wow imagine you and yours backing your friends at NYRA.. Obviously NYRA mgt. has either directly or indirectly received advise from a team of OBJECTIVE friends and family. Why wouldn't you all just raise your hands and tell the world that NYRA's solutions for racing are a based on advised broughtforth by Crist's friends and family team.

Not suggesting that the advice or direction that you and yours are giving NYRA is bad,or that Crist's boys aren't right on many accounts, but at least rep the obvious. Can it be anymore transparent that Crist is NYRA right hand man behind the scenes? Geez you can't make this crap up. We have Eric's woe is me argument(although wonderfully written) The Sheriff(Crist) and the Deputy(you) all singing NYRA party line.

ELA should send in his resume for White House Press Secretary. Who knows...George Bush could become President for life with the help of that brilliant wordsmith.

[blackthroatedwind]

Freddy, you hate NYRA because they didn't buy your T-Shirts. It's as simple as that.

What is funny, however, is you suggesting someone else is not being up front. My associations are well known.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Freddy, you hate NYRA because they didn't buy your T-Shirts. It's as simple as that.

What is funny, however, is you suggesting someone else is not being up front. My associations are well known.

ror!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Freddy, you hate NYRA because they didn't buy your T-Shirts. It's as simple as that.

What is funny, however, is you suggesting someone else is not being up front. My associations are well known.

Please I am much more swallow then that, you give me far too much credit. BTW the last show was clearly the best yet.

You can not run a business as a business without accountablity.. Dinny can do what ever the F he wants with the Phipp's foundation(a client to be fair) its his fn money.. He can't with Bessemer since it isn't all his. One is a NON Profit one isn't.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Listen you 2 simpletons. If you are going to argue your points at least get the story straight. NYRA declared Bankruptcy for 2 reasons. #1 is because under the current racing model they get to KEEP NO MONEY!!! Dont you understand that they are not allowed to keep any of the money they rightfully earned from their cut of the handle. It after expenses it all goes to the state. Obviously the laws which were written in a different era are no longer reasonable but fools keep saying "NYRA is broke!!!"
Reason #2 was to go in front of a federal judge who would almost certainly rule that NYRA is the rightful owner of the land which forces the Govenors hand. If he does not help them and the courts rule in NYRA's favor concerning the land, then there is no awarding of anything and NYRA can sell off land, pay off creditors and the state is loses the biggest battle of all, the land ownership deal.

As for NYRA and the HK jockey club being in competition....are you serious?

1) NYRA they don't earn they are a NON profit DING DONG. Hence of course they don't keep money(although in the past they just stole it).. The whole point of a Non Profit is not to earn but to distribute..You can't make this crap up?

2) BTW Cannon Ball at best it was 50/50 that a judge may have ruled NYRA was the owner of the land.. And why the F to the taxpayers have to bank role NYRA's potentially flawed quest? So now they can spend as much as they want to fight any crusade they choose says who Wilke Farr and Gallagher?

3) Becareful who you call a simpleton especially when you don't know who you are talking to. I may be nuts but I am far from stupid. Maybe my man BENE has a point perhaps you could focus a bit more on what you haven't been as successful as others have been. I may sell pens and tees but at least I sell a fn lot of them and help 200 hard working people earn a living.

[SentToStud]

To me, people are down on NYRA because there's nothing tremendously different about the how they operate vs a couple years ago when all the **** went down.

In the end, two mutel clerks were found guilty. One paid $5,000 in restitution and the other got 2-3 years probation.

In the meantime, Barry Schwartz, who was CEO of NYRA when a contract worth $750,000 was no-bid awarded to his daughter and son-in-law was allowed to just walk away instead of being indicted for fraud.

$750,000/$5000 = 150. Schwartz's "indiscretion" was 150 times, in dollars, worse than the mutuel clerk's. Yet he was able to retreat to his 600 acre farm and maintain his place in the ownership and breeding industry in NY.

When you have this kind of blatant and unpunished malfeasance occur at the top of a non-profit organization, people are going to want change. Supporters of NYRA can point to all the staff and oversight changes made since but with this kind of recent history as well as poor financial results, nobody can be surprised that people are distrustful and want change.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

To me, people are down on NYRA because there's nothing tremendously different about the how they operate vs a couple years ago when all the **** went down.

In the end, two mutel clerks were found guilty. One paid $5,000 in restitution and the other got 2-3 years probation.

In the meantime, Barry Schwartz, who was CEO of NYRA when a contract worth $750,000 was no-bid awarded to his daughter and son-in-law was allowed to just walk away instead of being indicted for fraud.

$750,000/$5000 = 150. Schwartz's "indiscretion" was 150 times, in dollars, worse than the mutuel clerk's. Yet he was able to retreat to his 600 acre farm and maintain his place in the ownership and breeding industry in NY.

When you have this kind of blatant and unpunished malfeasance occur at the top of a non-profit organization, people are going to want change. Supporters of NYRA can point to all the staff and oversight changes made since but with this kind of recent history as well as poor financial results, nobody can be surprised that people are distrustful and want change.

Look that makes way too much sense Studly obviously you are just pissed at NYRA because they dont buy your sperm..lol

The way it works is you tell everyone those were bad people who did bad things but you now have good people who do good things and all is forgiven because you came to jesus and confessed your past sins. Imagine a couple of Jewish boys are steering the ship from the second deck while the capt. smiles and perks them out. All because they lost their front man to HK..

I kind of like the new plan.. But the whole thing on an auction block and hawk it like livestock. What's so special about horse racing anyway and why do we need a bunch of care takers.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look that makes way too much sense Studly obviously you are just pissed at NYRA because they dont buy your sperm..lol

The way it works is you tell everyone those were bad people who did bad things but you now have good people who do good things and all is forgiven because you came to jesus and confessed your past sins. Imagine a couple of Jewish boys are steering the ship from the second deck while the capt. smiles and perks them out. All because they lost their front man to HK..

I kind of like the new plan.. But the whole thing on an auction block and hawk it like livestock. What's so special about horse racing anyway and why do we need a bunch of care takers.

It's a clusterf@#k there at NYRA/NY State for sure. And it's probably not going to change. Folks can bluster about things like Magna and CDI falling off the screen but, to me, when Kirkorian (MGM) loses interest that means there's probably no money to be made or at least not fast enough to justify the expense.

As far as Nader leaving, that's always an issue with non-profits... trying to compete for good people. He was there a long time, 10+ years I believe.

[freddymo]

Black beard cares about NYRA because he makes his living at those tracks and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Racing has had a storied tradition in NY and it will evolve with or without NYRA.

[sumitas]

Fellas, the NYRA has been awarded the horse racing part of the franchise. What is now needed is resolution of the casino side of it.

Originally Posted by sumitas

Fellas, the NYRA has been awarded the horse racing part of the franchise. What is now needed is resolution of the casino side of it.

Even critics of NYRA, like me, have no problem with them being awarded the franchise. The issue is accountability. Nobody is worthy of a 30 yr franchise, but a group that has a "shaky" history really isn't worthy.

If the problem is with OTB's then they need to resolve it. I just wonder why if the setup is so bad, why is NYRA fighting so hard for something that is impossible to break even with. Makes ZERO sense. Somebody is making money off the current situation and I suspect that somebody(ies) is connected to NYRA somehow.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Even critics of NYRA, like me, have no problem with them being awarded the franchise. The issue is accountability. Nobody is worthy of a 30 yr franchise, but a group that has a "shaky" history really isn't worthy.

If the problem is with OTB's then they need to resolve it. I just wonder why if the setup is so bad, why is NYRA fighting so hard for something that is impossible to break even with. Makes ZERO sense. Somebody is making money off the current situation and I suspect that somebody(ies) is connected to NYRA somehow.

Bene what you write is reasonable. I agree, 30 years is a long time without having some kind of accountability periodically. It seems fair that the NYRA should have to meet certain standards within a specific amount of time. Even the casino operator, they must meet standards and have accountability, imo.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

1) NYRA they don't earn they are a NON profit DING DONG. Hence of course they don't keep money(although in the past they just stole it).. The whole point of a Non Profit is not to earn but to distribute..You can't make this crap up?

2) BTW Cannon Ball at best it was 50/50 that a judge may have ruled NYRA was the owner of the land.. And why the F to the taxpayers have to bank role NYRA's potentially flawed quest? So now they can spend as much as they want to fight any crusade they choose says who Wilke Farr and Gallagher?

3) Becareful who you call a simpleton especially when you don't know who you are talking to. I may be nuts but I am far from stupid. Maybe my man BENE has a point perhaps you could focus a bit more on what you haven't been as successful as others have been. I may sell pens and tees but at least I sell a fn lot of them and help 200 hard working people earn a living.

1. It is impossible for any business, including non profits, to operate without sufficent operating capital. A lot of non profits keep a lot of the profits. Dont think so? Look into the financial records available on some of the 'charitable' non profits out there.
2. The Gov sure seemed to think that the %'s were greater than 50/50. And the taxpayers of NY are screwed either way and if you live in NY and dont get this...
3. I find it amusing people are so fascinated by my career. I am successful enough to buy 1/2 a million dollars worth of horses with my signature. I have done enough to warrant purchasing a 100 acre farm with $400000 worth of equipment. Of course I only employ 15 people but none of them work in sweatshops like your 200. Bene is almost assuredly living off his meager NYRA pension.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

To me, people are down on NYRA because there's nothing tremendously different about the how they operate vs a couple years ago when all the **** went down.

In the end, two mutel clerks were found guilty. One paid $5,000 in restitution and the other got 2-3 years probation.

In the meantime, Barry Schwartz, who was CEO of NYRA when a contract worth $750,000 was no-bid awarded to his daughter and son-in-law was allowed to just walk away instead of being indicted for fraud.

$750,000/$5000 = 150. Schwartz's "indiscretion" was 150 times, in dollars, worse than the mutuel clerk's. Yet he was able to retreat to his 600 acre farm and maintain his place in the ownership and breeding industry in NY.

When you have this kind of blatant and unpunished malfeasance occur at the top of a non-profit organization, people are going to want change. Supporters of NYRA can point to all the staff and oversight changes made since but with this kind of recent history as well as poor financial results, nobody can be surprised that people are distrustful and want change.

The ad agency that received that contract for marketing Saratoga was widely applauded for their work and generally credited for the large attendence jump at the Spa in the late 90's/early 00's.. Or does the result of the work not make a difference?

And it certainly didn't involve malfeasance given there is no obligation on NYRA to put work like that out to bid. There was nothing illegal about giving the assignment to his son in law's agency. Nepotism maybe, but not malfeasant.

You want to punish malfeasance? Go after the Albany Legislature phonies who pushed to have their cars serviced by the NYRA mechanics and filled their gas tanks at the pumps at the backstretch garage. Or were siphoning wood and work off the NYRA teet by making carpenters build porches at their summer cottages...

You're goring the wrong ox.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Bene what you write is reasonable. I agree, 30 years is a long time without having some kind of accountability periodically. It seems fair that the NYRA should have to meet certain standards within a specific amount of time. Even the casino operator, they must meet standards and have accountability, imo.

How do you figure there is no accountability? They have a freakin oversight board watching everything they do. The people who work in the racing ofice were forced to give up their fantasy football league in the name of accountability.

You think NYRA is so bad? Wait until Stronach croaks and Magna sells off the rest of the tracks...

[sumitas]

CS maybe I wasn't clear on my point. If the NYRA has the oversight, great. I won't dispute that. I am no expert. Let the NYRA run with the ball that the bidding process gave them. Next step...the casino operator.

[blackthroatedwind]

For those of you that think 30 years is too long....

The land claim is worth in excess of $1 Billion. If anything, NYRA may have sold their equity in that claim short by getting " only " 30 years. Being that they are better than 50% to win the claim they are forgoing over a half a billion dollars in value. Those of you that think they should have settled for less than 30 years should be careful next time you are in any kind of bargaining position.

Those of you that think NYRA should not get a franchise extension need to tell us which bidder should get the franchise and why. Otherwise your arguments hold no water. It is a CHOICE by the Governor. Please tell us why he chose the wrong candidate and why.