hard spun ..impressed..not really

Originally Posted by randallscott35

They all have gunk when they don't fire. Or entrapped, or didn't like the track, or don't run well on cloudy days....etc....he just didn't have it that day. As i've always said, they aren't robots. The best horses have off days---except Mineshaft--LOL.

Mineshaft had one off day I believe. His first on the turf. After he got off of that surface things were never the same.
Dammit Randall Im tryin to help you here. He may not have been feeling well at the SW. I think he is a good horse poly or not. He may not win the Derby but he has the style that can. Only thing is he appears to run hard. He looks like he takes a bit of a pounding, but this may just be me. Or maybe its just the replays I have watched. Others may show differently.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Mineshaft had one off day I believe. His first on the turf. After he got off of that surface things were never the same.
Dammit Randall Im tryin to help you here. He may not have been feeling well at the SW. I think he is a good horse poly or not. He may not win the Derby but he has the style that can. Only thing is he appears to run hard. He looks like he takes a bit of a pounding, but this may just be me. Or maybe its just the replays I have watched. Others may show differently.

LOL, thanks buddy but I don't look for help....Yeah I wish Mineshaft had been over here for the 3 yr old dirt season. Useful horse on the turf, monster on the dirt.

Yeah, nice call there. I looked at those Bullara PP's over and over, it took him 7 times to break his maiden which is of course red flag right there, at least for the win. So ok, he's not great, but he's now gone back to the Pletcher barn after his maiden win. So maybe something's up there, maybe he's finally figured it out.

But then I look at all those maiden races and one time he was less than even money to win and he fails. And three other times, he was less than 3-2 to win and he cant win. How can a horse be that well thought of that many times and still not win..? Maybe they were setting it up for the big score?? I dunno, seemed odd.

[golfer]

To my untrained eye, Hard Spun broke much sharper yesterday than at Oaklawn, he could have gotten the lead, Pino took a hold of him.. at Oaklawn, he had no chance to get the lead. Other than that, the trips were basically the same.

[Kasept]

Hard Spun was plenty impressive Saturday despite again having trouble off the turn with his lead change. This WASN'T the identical race he ran in the Southwest.. it was the identical race he ran in the LeComte, a race people seem to have forgotten, and one in which he did exactly what he did at Turfway.

As I said all week, when Steve Asmussen stated he was bringing Curlin back to Kentucky because he didn't like how his horses have been getting over the Oaklawn surface, it was independent confirmation that what Larry Jones had said after the Southwest had credibility. Personally, as a Jones fan (Hello Liberty, Wildcat Bettie B, Gasia, et al..), I loved yesterday's result as a "GFY" to the racing press that was so quick to deride Jones and scoff at the Danzig colt.

What made the effort impressive was his being used early to gain position (:22.4) and his subsequent ability to run on... :22.4, :24.3 (:47.2), :24.1 (:48.4), :25.0 (:49.1), :12.4 (:37.4), 1:49.2. What he showed today was that he is a handy colt. Demonstrating tractability, he did it entirely on his own while under steady restraint by Pino.

I don't know why anyone would doubt his viability as a classic runner moving forward.

[Dunbar]

nice post, kasept.

fwiw, Hard Spun earned a 101 Beyer for the Lanes End.

--Dunbar

[Hoist Her Flag]

Overall an impresse win by Hard Spun, as mentioned the splits were solid and he kept running. The Blue Grass is shaping up as a monster.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Hard Spun was plenty impressive Saturday despite again having trouble off the turn with his lead change. This WASN'T the identical race he ran in the Southwest.. it was the identical race he ran in the LeComte, a race people seem to have forgotten, and one in which he did exactly what he did at Turfway.

As I said all week, when Steve Asmussen stated he was bringing Curlin back to Kentucky because he didn't like how his horses have been getting over the Oaklawn surface, it was independent confirmation that what Larry Jones had said after the Southwest had credibility. Personally, as a Jones fan (Hello Liberty, Wildcat Bettie B, Gasia, et al..), I loved yesterday's result as a "GFY" to the racing press that was so quick to deride Jones and scoff at the Danzig colt.

What made the effort impressive was his being used early to gain position (:22.4) and his subsequent ability to run on... :22.4, :24.3 (:47.2), :24.1 (:48.4), :25.0 (:49.1), :12.4 (:37.4), 1:49.2. What he showed today was that he is a handy colt. Demonstrating tractability, he did it entirely on his own while under steady restraint by Pino.

I don't know why anyone would doubt his viability as a classic runner moving forward.

I notice the lead change too in the replay, had sort of a weird action in the stretch also. Really don't know what to make of him, he'll be switching to "another" different surface at Keeneland with their polytrack. Still, there's a lot of talent there and the price you'll get on him Derby day (if he gets there) will be a interesting factor.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i wasnt that impressed..thats just my oppinion..no one ran well..im glad for the connections as steve said ..but in the big picture id hardly consider this a stand out derby horse ,,again just my dumb oppinion..

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I never thought you were implying I did. I just thought nobody really did....and I can't understand Hooves's posts anyway. I'm not THAT smart.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Hard Spun was plenty impressive Saturday despite again having trouble off the turn with his lead change. This WASN'T the identical race he ran in the Southwest.. it was the identical race he ran in the LeComte, a race people seem to have forgotten, and one in which he did exactly what he did at Turfway.

As I said all week, when Steve Asmussen stated he was bringing Curlin back to Kentucky because he didn't like how his horses have been getting over the Oaklawn surface, it was independent confirmation that what Larry Jones had said after the Southwest had credibility. Personally, as a Jones fan (Hello Liberty, Wildcat Bettie B, Gasia, et al..), I loved yesterday's result as a "GFY" to the racing press that was so quick to deride Jones and scoff at the Danzig colt.

What made the effort impressive was his being used early to gain position (:22.4) and his subsequent ability to run on... :22.4, :24.3 (:47.2), :24.1 (:48.4), :25.0 (:49.1), :12.4 (:37.4), 1:49.2. What he showed today was that he is a handy colt. Demonstrating tractability, he did it entirely on his own while under steady restraint by Pino.

I don't know why anyone would doubt his viability as a classic runner moving forward.

Great post Steve...thanks

I have a question about his switching leads and looking a bit awkard at times coming out of the turn and into the stretch....but first I will eat the crow, because after the Southwest, I was very critical of the connections and what I thought at the time was a lame "excuse" for his poor performance.

Now the question....I'm not sure how many people notice it, but could the fact that Pino is very "figity" have anything to do with Hard Spun's movement? He is all over the place when he's in the saddle. He is constantly looking around, switching hands, etc....Has always been one of his little quirks I suppose.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Hard Spun was plenty impressive Saturday despite again having trouble off the turn with his lead change. This WASN'T the identical race he ran in the Southwest.. it was the identical race he ran in the LeComte, a race people seem to have forgotten, and one in which he did exactly what he did at Turfway.

As I said all week, when Steve Asmussen stated he was bringing Curlin back to Kentucky because he didn't like how his horses have been getting over the Oaklawn surface, it was independent confirmation that what Larry Jones had said after the Southwest had credibility. Personally, as a Jones fan (Hello Liberty, Wildcat Bettie B, Gasia, et al..), I loved yesterday's result as a "GFY" to the racing press that was so quick to deride Jones and scoff at the Danzig colt.

What made the effort impressive was his being used early to gain position (:22.4) and his subsequent ability to run on... :22.4, :24.3 (:47.2), :24.1 (:48.4), :25.0 (:49.1), :12.4 (:37.4), 1:49.2. What he showed today was that he is a handy colt. Demonstrating tractability, he did it entirely on his own while under steady restraint by Pino.

I don't know why anyone would doubt his viability as a classic runner moving forward.

We all like to second guess trainers. Jones was proven right this time even if some think he went to the softest spot to get the earnings. His tactical speed, to obtain position out of the gate, because of post position is a good trait. Even his slowing down after using his speed early is good and having a moderate if not overwhelming finish sets him up a a strong contender with the best. In retrospect dosent this win make the Ark bunch look better? Im not saying Hard Spun is my selection but how can anyone not think this was a positive move by him and his connections.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Hard Spun was plenty impressive Saturday despite again having trouble off the turn with his lead change. This WASN'T the identical race he ran in the Southwest.. it was the identical race he ran in the LeComte, a race people seem to have forgotten, and one in which he did exactly what he did at Turfway.

As I said all week, when Steve Asmussen stated he was bringing Curlin back to Kentucky because he didn't like how his horses have been getting over the Oaklawn surface, it was independent confirmation that what Larry Jones had said after the Southwest had credibility. Personally, as a Jones fan (Hello Liberty, Wildcat Bettie B, Gasia, et al..), I loved yesterday's result as a "GFY" to the racing press that was so quick to deride Jones and scoff at the Danzig colt.

What made the effort impressive was his being used early to gain position (:22.4) and his subsequent ability to run on... :22.4, :24.3 (:47.2), :24.1 (:48.4), :25.0 (:49.1), :12.4 (:37.4), 1:49.2. What he showed today was that he is a handy colt. Demonstrating tractability, he did it entirely on his own while under steady restraint by Pino.

I don't know why anyone would doubt his viability as a classic runner moving forward.

I agree.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

This WASN'T the identical race he ran in the Southwest.. it was the identical race he ran in the LeComte,

After viewing all three races in question I still believe that yesterdays race was very similar to the Southwest. In the LeConte Hard Spun basically set an even pace and finished up well. In the last 2 races he was taken in hand while in a wide stalking position though he was a bit closer to the pace yesterday. The difference in my opinion was that when he made his move yesterday he was closer to the leaders, was a bit stronger and was doing it on a track that is condusive to that type of move. In the Southwest he had to make up a little more ground and was used up a little in making up that ground in a fairly fast 3rd quarter and was doing it on a track where it was virtually impossible to make that move.
I dont like or dislike this horse or connections. I think that he is a good horse and thought he ran really well yesterday. But that three wide in hand trip is not going to work out many other tracks like it did yesterday and it most assuredly wont work at CD on the 1st sat in May. The biggest question I have about this horse is can he rate BEHIND other horses? Not outside of them, but behind them. I'm sure that there will be plenty of pace in the Derby and my question for this horse is can he sit behind horses, take dirt in his face and handle it?

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

After viewing all three races in question I still believe that yesterdays race was very similar to the Southwest. In the LeConte Hard Spun basically set an even pace and finished up well. In the last 2 races he was taken in hand while in a wide stalking position though he was a bit closer to the pace yesterday. The difference in my opinion was that when he made his move yesterday he was closer to the leaders, was a bit stronger and was doing it on a track that is condusive to that type of move. In the Southwest he had to make up a little more ground and was used up a little in making up that ground in a fairly fast 3rd quarter and was doing it on a track where it was virtually impossible to make that move.
I dont like or dislike this horse or connections. I think that he is a good horse and thought he ran really well yesterday. But that three wide in hand trip is not going to work out many other tracks like it did yesterday and it most assuredly wont work at CD on the 1st sat in May. The biggest question I have about this horse is can he rate BEHIND other horses? Not outside of them, but behind them. I'm sure that there will be plenty of pace in the Derby and my question for this horse is can he sit behind horses, take dirt in his face and handle it?

I agree with your wvaluation even though Im sure you dont need that. what I wonder is that you question his ability to come from behind not being out side and others knock Street sense and his style of doing exactly what you think HS hasnt shown the ability to do.Street Sens is alway knocked about his perfect trip. Dont horses with ability alwayts seem to carve a perfect trip. If you look back at the BC SS got the perfect trip but if you watch the replay . The inside hole was quickly closing but Borel had the horse to take the hole before it closed.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The biggest question I have about this horse is can he rate BEHIND other horses? Not outside of them, but behind them. I'm sure that there will be plenty of pace in the Derby and my question for this horse is can he sit behind horses, take dirt in his face and handle it?

This is a very good point. Hard Spun, like many others, are not Smarty Jones. They do not dictate the terms of the race. So the flexibility of all of these horses will come into play. And if none have the flexibility to adjust to unfamiliar positions, luck will play a huge role (as it always does, but less so if we have a horse that is far superior to the others).

So versatility... which of these horses so far has shown the versatility to win in different ways? I have not seen enough yet. Right now I would say Street Sense.

HO as I was typing this another post slips in saying basically the same thing, sorry Jpops

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is a very good point. Hard Spun, like many others, are not Smarty Jones. They do not dictate the terms of the race. So the flexibility of all of these horses will come into play. And if none have the flexibility to adjust to unfamiliar positions, luck will play a huge role (as it always does, but less so if we have a horse that is far superior to the others).

So versatility... which of these horses so far has shown the versatility to win in different ways? I have not seen enough yet. Right now I would say Street Sense.

HO as I was typing this another post slips in saying basically the same thing, sorry Jpops

But you said it much better. It must be the Texas in us.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not a trainer, and Larry Jones is a good trainer, but according to his pps and really any speed figures you use, Hard Spun ran his best career race at Oaklawn. The bottom line is Jones found the weakest race with the best purse to guarantee Hard Spun a spot in the Derby if he won. I applaud him for that but find this " he didn't like Oaklawn " stuff to fly in the face of the facts.

I am not saying I will always be right, as sometimes the stories are true, but for the most part ignoring " trainerspeak " is the best thing you can do.

Generally, I would agree with this, but I did see another quote where Asmussen said he noticed some horses not getting over the Oaklawn track(this was post Curlin win), so there might be some validity in what Jones was saying.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by jpops757

I agree with your wvaluation even though Im sure you dont need that. what I wonder is that you question his ability to come from behind not being out side and others knock Street sense and his style of doing exactly what you think HS hasnt shown the ability to do.Street Sens is alway knocked about his perfect trip. Dont horses with ability alwayts seem to carve a perfect trip. If you look back at the BC SS got the perfect trip but if you watch the replay . The inside hole was quickly closing but Borel had the horse to take the hole before it closed.

I don't think people are knocking SS for his trips and resulting victories, but rather are saying that he got the edge over Any Given Saturday. Having the edge of being willing to cut inside horses is a positive in my mind...but it doesn't always mean you were the best horse in the race.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I don't think people are knocking SS for his trips and resulting victories, but rather are saying that he got the edge over Any Given Saturday. Having the edge of being willing to cut inside horses is a positive in my mind...but it doesn't always mean you were the best horse in the race.

A lot of the so called better horses arent good enough to take advantage of the inside holes. What I cant understand is why cant a horse that makes a good trip cant be the best horse. AGS was in front of SS but chose to go outside so why say he got the worse trip. Maybe his rider didnt have the horse to take the inside.