![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
Richi, No racing board has any right at all to go after bank or phone records of any trainer. Violation of a suspension IS NOT a criminal offense, not by a long shot. This is the United States, and racing boards do not have rights that supercede those guranteed to all citizens. Lets put it this way, if someone attempted to pull you over, and said they were with the CHRB, LOL!!!, they would be breaking the law. They are not boards with the powers of Federal powers like the SEC. They have no authority whatsoever off the racetrack, none. And any attempt to breach the privacy of citizens off he track by attempting to acess their personal records would be met with lawsuits or arrests of the indivuals who attempted to illegally gain acess. |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
|
#43
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
I think the entire discussion is taking place in this trainers home town -- "Fantasy Land". LOL. Eric |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
![]() In reality, this entire conversation comes down to a very simple issue -- the specific terms and conditions of a suspension. I am sure this differs between jurisdictions. If there is a criminal aspect to the suspension then I am sure it would take on an entirely different size and complexion.
Eric |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
It is obviously more expensive to train out here than other places. We have three trainers out here right now, one charges $100 a day, one charges $90 a day, and the other charges $80 a day. The one who charges $100 a day has a night watchman, so his expenses are a little higher. Anyway, I know several trainers out here and I know approximately how much money they make a year on average. The bottom line is that most of these guys make around $10 a day ( give or take a couple of dollars) per horse. That is where their salary comes from. So if a trainer out here has 40 horses, he's probably making around $140,000 a year($400 a day, 7 days a week) just on the day money. If his horses earn $1 million for the year, then he makes an additional $90,000-$100,000 for a grand total of somewhere between $230,000-$240,000 a year. My trainers charge between 12-13%, so the groom, assistant trainer, etc. get a piece of the purse and the trainer is still left with close to 10%. Since the exercise rider, foreman, etc. may get a piece of the purse, the trainer's share could drop down to around 9%. Last edited by Rupert Pupkin : 12-05-2006 at 12:24 AM. |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
![]() All of this talk proves that the key players in all the barns is a creative bookeeper.a underhanded lawyer, and a very shady Vet. Optional is the Cal goveners nutritionalist,,or maybe just go to the master Bonds and get the good stuff.
|
#47
|
|||
|
|||
![]() The bottom line is that its extremely hard for any trainer to stay in the business for an extended period of time at major tracks on purse winning %'s alone.
What trainers really build their finances or retirements on are commissions from selling a horse(Most trainers receive 5-10% when they sell one privately) and moreso on breeding rights in stallions or the 5-1% they get from the owner if the horse is sold as a stallion(most owners do pay this, not all(like one guy I know), but most). Guys like Zito, Pletcher, Mott, Baffert, etc build up these breeding rights which can be sold each year or used. A guy like Zito has a breeding right to Unbrdidled's Song(trained him at the end of his career) and each year he can sell that on the market or do a foal share with someone who has a mare and then race or sell the foal. Guy like Pletcher will soon be making more money on his breeding rights than he will on the purses, and when you sell a horse like Ashado for over 9 mill, its customary to give the trainer who trained the horse 5%. If you train a horse that the owners sell outright as a sire, its customary to give the trainer 5% of the money received. Simply living on purse money at the highest level of racing is a non stop rat race thats hard to take. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Rather than debate issues where we are counting other people's money, I for one would like to get some clarification on the "suspension" issue. The terms and conditions of the suspension will dictate how a person has to abide. As I said, this will vary from state to state.
So at least we know, in CA, the suspended trainer can communicate with whoever he wants. No phone record incriminations or anything of the like. I am sure if this positive test was elevated to a criminal matter then the circumstances would change. However, as one person pointed out, a positive test is not a criminal matter -- at least not initially. Anyway, I checked with local counsel and the same applies in NY and NJ. I would think that the terms and conditions not only spell out what the trainer can and cannot do to in order to abide, but it would also spell out what the governing body can and cannot do. Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to clarify some of these issues. Somewhat ironic -- we need someone who has been suspended to clarify this for us, LOL. Eric Last edited by ELA : 12-05-2006 at 04:39 PM. |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
Anyway, I would estimate that well over 95% of trainers make the majority of their money from their salary(which comes from day money), rather than from purses. Even on a big circuit like the Southern California circuit, I would estimate that over 80% of the trainers make more money from their salary than from purses. |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
--Dunbar
__________________
Curlin and Hard Spun finish 1,2 in the 2007 BC Classic, demonstrating how competing in all three Triple Crown races ruins a horse for the rest of the year...see avatar photo from REUTERS/Lucas Jackson |
#51
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|
#52
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|
#53
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|
#54
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Last edited by Cannon Shell : 12-05-2006 at 08:25 PM. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
They could indeed request bank records, but you would be under no obligation to give them bank records. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
Perhaps Richi only deals with higher end guys, but I know quite a few trainers who people would think are "successful" guys to some extent who really have to scrape by. The point of my post was that be financially successful at the higher end venues as a trainer, you must develop horses that are sold for good money or train one who gets a stud deal. |
#57
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|
#58
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
All I was saying was that many people that aren't in the indusrty and even a few in the industry, don't realize that trainers take a salary. People hear trainers say that they don't make anything on the day money, and some people take that to mean that the only money that trainers make is from purses. These people don't realize that the trainer gets a salary. |
#59
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|
#60
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Being that we are dealing with hypotheticals here try this: Trainers expenses exceed training income regardless of trainers salary. Racing income (10%) puts stable back in black. Does trainer make money on the day rate?
|