Invasor, Excitement?

[blackthroatedwind]

There's always the Clark.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There's always the Clark.

True, but I thought that was now a grade 2?

i can't help but take a moment of my time to applaud the GREATEST horse ever to wear a saddle,
the one the only, winner of the JCGC, from a predetermined inside post, bernardini. (INVASOR will get the far most post, because after all we are dealing with new yorkers here, don't think so, just ask richard mandella what he thinks of the fairness of the track folks in new york when it comes to the draw and the positions world champion horses from out of state get assigned)

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by oracle80

True, but I thought that was now a grade 2?

G1 this year...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

True, but I thought that was now a grade 2?

No, it was a Grade 2 and now it's a Grade 1.

Originally Posted by Secretariat

i can't help but take a moment of my time to applaud the GREATEST horse ever to wear a saddle,
the one the only, winner of the JCGC, from a predetermined inside post, bernardini. (INVASOR will get the far most post, because after all we are dealing with new yorkers here, don't think so, just ask richard mandella what he thinks of the fairness of the track folks in new york when it comes to the draw and the positions world champion horses from out of state get assigned)

Richard Mandella is a very bright and intelligent man, therefore he would never do anything so stupid as to criticize the pp draw and elude to it being predetermined.
Have you ever seen them draw posts Blocky? I've seen it a million times at Saratoga in the racing office, the actual draw that is. Trust me, the guys shaking the pills have no clue whats gonna happen unil the pill comes out.
If you think its done in a back room full of smoke with guys conspiring to give someone a better draw, you're sadly mistaken. Its done at the counter of the racing office in full view of all the jockey agents and some trainers.
This is insanity.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No, it was a Grade 2 and now it's a Grade 1.

Wow, I did not know that. I think if he wins a grade one he may go to the shed. The Clark may be the spot.

[blackthroatedwind]

Other than winning the BC Classic I don't think it will severly increase his value. He's fairly established.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

i can't help but take a moment of my time to applaud the GREATEST horse ever to wear a saddle,
the one the only, winner of the JCGC, from a predetermined inside post, bernardini. (INVASOR will get the far most post, because after all we are dealing with new yorkers here, don't think so, just ask richard mandella what he thinks of the fairness of the track folks in new york when it comes to the draw and the positions world champion horses from out of state get assigned)

INVASOR is not from "out of state." He's in Kieran's barn.

Originally Posted by Linny

INVASOR is not from "out of state." He's in Kieran's barn.

Wouldnt matter if he was from Pluto, you can't fix a pp draw.

[todko]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

People keep forgetting that the Preakness field (even without Barbaro) still had Brother Derek(a G1 winner by the way) and sweetnorthernsaint.. both very solid horses that were soundly defeated. Although it's true bernie has yet to be tested against older horses.

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

jeez someone from del mar actually knows something bout dem horses. good to see an enlightened poster, even if you are from that other board. (too bad joel ruined it for everyone).

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

Yep, Bernardini is slow alright. It has been ALL luck that he won the Preakness, Jim Dandy, Withers, and Travers. It was all luck that he ran his last three races with -TG numbers and 113-116 BSFs. It was all luck that he ran one of the fastest times ever in the Travers and ran sub 155 in the Preakness. No, Bluegrass Cat couldn't have gotten injured because he was trying so hard to keep up with Bernardini. That couldn't possibly be a reason. Bluegrass Cat would have definitely beat him if he wasn't injured in the Travers. Yep...

And all of those other horses are allowance horses that Bernardini ran against in the Travers too. High Cotton is definitely an allowance horse...yep. As is Dr. Pleasure, Hesanoldsalt, and Minister's Bid. Shame on Pletcher, Zito, and Ward for even putting those horses in that race.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by todko

Bernardini doesn't impress me one bit -- Brother Derek should have been rested after the Derby and same with SNS. Both were shot from their Derby efforts. Brother Derek took forever to get back to the track and ran poorly his first time back. SNS was so wiped out that he still hasn't made it back to the races. SNS was staggering down the stretch in the Preakness, Derek folded before the turn, and Bernardini looked a lot better than he should have.

Donna Brothers called it before the Preakness. She said both BD and SNS didn't look good.

In the Jim Dandy, Sunriver was injured. The rest of the Jim Dandy field were allowance horses at best.

Bernardini ran through slow fractions in the Travers (gimme a break -- 48 and nearly 1:13), was urged strongly, hit and urged, yet didn't come home in any riveting fashion. After those fractions, if Bernardini was truly "very special" or "gifted" or whatever Albertrani and his hype machine has been calling him, he should have cooked home in :22 or so. A healthy Bluegrass Cat would have run away from. Bright One would have been in the next county by the time Bernardini hit the wire. Discreet Cat would have been long gone.

Bernardini has just been very lucky so far. He's no superhorse. If the shieks let Invasor run he'll beat Bernardini.

You forgot one thing, he's well bred, so he must be good...

I agree with most of what you said, but I think he's a very good horse, not the super horse hype machine kind, but we will see when things haven't always gone his way...

[todko]

Originally Posted by Secretariat

jeez someone from del mar actually knows something bout dem horses. good to see an enlightened poster, even if you are from that other board. (too bad joel ruined it for everyone).

Thanks Secretariat.

Moving my tack here, so to speak. Seems to be a better mix of midwest, east, south, and such.

Could just read the racing press and skip the chatboards, but sometimes I find I get more truth on the chatboards from people who look at racing from the bettor/fans side.

Despite the arguments and such.

[Gander]

How do you know hes not a super horse? What has he ever done to put any doubts in your head? While I agree he hasnt been tested, its not his fault and that certainly isnt a flaw. Hes just been that much better than the horses he has been running against. Whos to say how super he'll be. What more could Bernardini have done up to this point? I really dont get it? Did you want him to stop while in midstretch, take a crap and sprint on 2 legs to the wire?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Gander

How do you know hes not a super horse? What has he ever done to put any doubts in your head? While I agree he hasnt been tested, its not his fault and that certainly isnt a flaw. Hes just been that much better than the horses he has been running against. Whos to say how super he'll be. What more could Bernardini have done up to this point? I really dont get it? Did you want him to stop while in midstretch, take a crap and sprint on 2 legs to the wire?

I agree....

I really haven't said a word on this because there is really no way to tell until he meets elders. His wins have been so dominant that there isn't any way to knock him based on what hes beaten. Its not like hes been beating them by a length.
Still the only question I have is what will happen if he gets looked in the eye in the stretch. I'm very curious as to what will happen if and when this occurs.

[Gander]

Exactly. But whos to say he will ever get looked in the eye?
Stay tuned, he meets a very good Invasor next week and Dylan Thomas who supposedly is all the rage. I hear they sing folk songs about him in the mountains.

[todko]

Originally Posted by Gander

How do you know hes not a super horse? What has he ever done to put any doubts in your head? While I agree he hasnt been tested, its not his fault and that certainly isnt a flaw. Hes just been that much better than the horses he has been running against. Whos to say how super he'll be. What more could Bernardini have done up to this point? I really dont get it? Did you want him to stop while in midstretch, take a crap and sprint on 2 legs to the wire?

Gander,

Just look at the cold hard facts, he's beaten nobody in average times, he's done nothing to justify the "superhorse" label he has received. Don't tell me about Grade I wins either -- Giacomo won a bigger race than Bernardini, Smarty won more impressively without a rest, Birdstone took down the Belmont and then the Travers. None were called "superhorse". Why should Bernardini be?

To me, and he may prove me wrong (but I doubt it), he's a product of the press hoping to move away from Barbaro.

A "superhorse" proves it against tough company. Ghostzapper vs. Roses In May or St. Liam cutting a 1 1/4 in 1:59 and change.

Bernardini may get a free ride all the way. He surely doesn't have any Ghostzapper, Roses In May, or St. Liam to run against even if he gets past Invasor.

He's just a lucky horse in the right place at the right time -- just like Giacomo was.