Crist on the Farcical World Cup

[freddymo]

I am just surprised Gitano Hernando didn't confirm Abrams thoughts that he was a synth. freak?

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by tector

I am very happy that Dubai Inc. went to plastic, because I don't want top American horses going there.

Now if we can go back to dirt for the BC, it will be perfect.

I enjoyed watching yesterday. I did dip my toe into the waters, but it wasn't as much as I would normally put into the early Daily Double, so I could care less what nonsensical results were produced. Next year, I'll keep all of my money in my pocket, but I will watch. Nothing to get lathered up over. It's an event and I'll treat it as such.

[_ed_]

It wasn't just on the synthetic track that we saw illogical results. Honestly, did anyone expect Al Shemali to win the Duty Free? He was at 89-1 here. It happens.

[clyde]

Of course his first name isn't Jesus---it's Steven H.




Thought that was pretty well known,but oh well.

[ninetoone]

I think the pace made the race in the Classic. Modest fractions. A faster pace up front would have equaled a Gio Ponti win, and this thread & Crist's article would have never happenned. It was more about the pace than the surface.

[letswastemoney]

I think it would make things more exciting if they eliminated the turf race, so that every turf star like Dar Re Mi and so on could compete in the $10 million race instead.

[chucklestheclown]

Isn't this a lot like baseball writers carping on the Super Bowl? Contrary to what I may have led others to believe, I read the drf quite frequently. Crist should concentrate on running the dam thing and let the experts handle the racing.

[tector]

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

Isn't this a lot like baseball writers carping on the Super Bowl? Contrary to what I may have led others to believe, I read the drf quite frequently. Crist should concentrate on running the dam thing and let the experts handle the racing.

These would be the same experts who have run the game into the ground?

[chucklestheclown]

No. You are referring to (I think) people who talk about stuff they focus on one board meeting a quarter. When I say "experts" I am talking about people who have expertise on a subject, such as MyMissStormCat visavis Dubai and International Racing in general. Just the laughable difference in odds between the U.S. and Britain yesterday should be enough to satisfy even a casual observer that the U.S. doesn't understand overseas racing, or even cares to.

[tector]

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

No. You are referring to (I think) people who talk about stuff they focus on one board meeting a quarter. When I say "experts" I am talking about people who have expertise on a subject, such as MyMissStormCat visavis Dubai and International Racing in general. Just the laughable difference in odds between the U.S. and Britain yesterday should be enough to satisfy even a casual observer that the U.S. doesn't understand overseas racing, or even cares to.

I know I don't care to.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

No. You are referring to (I think) people who talk about stuff they focus on one board meeting a quarter. When I say "experts" I am talking about people who have expertise on a subject, such as MyMissStormCat visavis Dubai and International Racing in general. Just the laughable difference in odds between the U.S. and Britain yesterday should be enough to satisfy even a casual observer that the U.S. doesn't understand overseas racing, or even cares to.

If you find the odds differences "laughable", I hope you took advantage of them. It's not as if the UK slayed them. They only had one winner pay under $15.

Two of the seven race winners (Calming Influence and Kinsale King) had lower odds in the US than in Britain. The unofficial numbers I have:

Joy and Fun 12-1 UK/ 18-1 US
Calming Influence 14-1 UK/ 13-1 US
Musir 1.375-1 UK/ 1.7-1 US
Kinsale King 7-1 UK/ 4.5-1 US
Al Shemali 40-1 UK/ 145-1 US
Dar Re Mi 9-1 UK/ 12-1 US
Gloria 16-1 UK/ 25-1 US

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by pweizer

I have great respect for Mr. Christ but I think he is way off base here. I am no fan of synthetic surfaces and if I had my way they would all be gone. But, I made good money on the world cup races without throwing darts at a board. Anyone reading Pat Cummings excellent work all week would have had to taken a hard look at the World Cup winner. Pat all week long wrote about how Gloria was a stand out in his works and on apprerance. Then factor in that he figured to be lone speed in the race and the fact that he has run well in this race before and it is hard to say he is impossible. The winner of the prior race ran third in the Breeder's Cup turf last November (in fact I used her that day) and has beaten the boys before in group races in Europe. Again, it hardly took a dart to land on her.

A $5 double on these two races returned $1557.

The 99-1 upset that came in the race prior was a turf race. I agree that one was tough to come up with but it wasn't a synthetic surface which produced that crazy result.

Again, I agree with the main argument that it would be better to go back to dirt and turf only. However, I think using the world cup results to make that case is a real reach.

Paul

dar re mi the winner of the turf classic was a definite overlay and not that hard to get. it was a turf race though. the next race was for 10 mil and the favorite was coming out of a 61k race. the second choice was a turf horse and the winner was a bum(really thats sour grapes). i had two doubles going but could not come up with the winner. one of mine was red desire who had just beat all of the top three at the distance and track last out. for 10 mil they should be attracting horses like vodka, quality road and zenyatta. instead its a pack of pigs. the synthetic is not to blame but it sure does not help. they could of kept the purses the same because that amount of money for horses like this is the farcicle part of this equation. the breeders cup does not shell out this kind of money and the quality is tons better. it used to be the oppisite way around. i think the sheiks crapped on their own parade.

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

dar re mi the winner of the turf classic was a definite overlay and not that hard to get. it was a turf race though. the next race was for 10 mil and the favorite was coming out of a 61k race. the second choice was a turf horse and the winner was a bum. i had two doubles going but could not come up with the winner. one of mine was red desire who had just beat all of the top three at the distance and track last out. for 10 mil they should be attracting horses like vodka, quality road and zenyatta. instead its a pack of pigs. the synthetic is not to blame but it sure does not help. they could of kept the purses the same because that amount of money for horses like this is the farcicle part of this equation. the breeders cup does not shell out this kind of money and the quality is tons better. it used to be the oppisite way around. i think the sheiks crapped on their own parade.

We certainly can't make the argument that Zenyatta skipped the race because of the surface. Quality Road also went to Santa Anita for the Breeder's Cup on synthetic (although refused to load). From an American perspective, as Steve pointed out earlier, the timing is tough to get our best horses. This is true at least if they want to have a full campaign. How many of our great horses went over there, won the big race, and were never the same? It is a tough trip.

Paul

[blackthroatedwind]

If it was a dirt race it's hard to believe Quality Road wouldn't have been there. All they would have sacrificed was the Met Mile....and as glad as I am that he's running at Belmont.....I think they would have made that swap.

[Linny]

No matter the outcome, from top to bottom the DWC had a better lineup this year than last and apart from Curlin a better lineup than 2 years ago. I follow international racing closely and apart from the US horses there were 7 G1 winners. Gloria has run in the Carnival the last 3 or 4 years and won one of the local preps for this race. He won the G1 Singapore Cup last year. Alybar has clearly moved up his game since going to Tapeta, but then again Cigar wasn't "Cigar" until he got to dirt. Red Desire was a G1 winner in Japan who was third to their 2x HOY in the $5.4m Japan Cup last fall and had woon a Tapeta prep locally.
The fact that the US horses didn't get the big money is no excuse for trashing the race. Who the heck did Curlin beat when we were gloating about the best horse in the world?

As for the timing, to the Aussies, it's late summer, so it's like the end of the Saratoga or Del Mar meetings yet they still show up. In Hong Kong and Japan and Singapore, they are on northern time and their seasons are just picking up.

As for the horses involved being oldsters of little value, Gloria is 6 in his native Brazil. Allybar is 4 and Lizard's Desire is 4 in his native South Africa. Maybe if the US based trainers could figure out how to keep a horse around that long, some of them might develop a following, like HK's Good Baba who won the HK Mile for the 3rd time last fall at age 7. He's 16 for 39 and he's a KY bred. Many of those trainers with long lasting horses train on synthetics.

I love the irony of people complaining about the DWC siphoning off too many good American horses then complaining that running it on Tapeta makes it phony. You should be happy, maybe no Americans will bother. If you don't follow or care about interational racing, then why even look at or read about the DWC races?

Originally Posted by Linny

I love the irony of people complaining about the DWC siphoning off too many good American horses then complaining that running it on Tapeta makes it phony. You should be happy, maybe no Americans will bother. If you don't follow or care about interational racing, then why even look at or read about the DWC races?

Yes why be inquisitive. Shame on you people!! Now excuse me...I gotta go put this drool hanging from my mouth in the sink.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Linny

No matter the outcome, from top to bottom the DWC had a better lineup this year than last and apart from Curlin a better lineup than 2 years ago. I follow international racing closely and apart from the US horses there were 7 G1 winners. Gloria has run in the Carnival the last 3 or 4 years and won one of the local preps for this race. He won the G1 Singapore Cup last year. Alybar has clearly moved up his game since going to Tapeta, but then again Cigar wasn't "Cigar" until he got to dirt. Red Desire was a G1 winner in Japan who was third to their 2x HOY in the $5.4m Japan Cup last fall and had woon a Tapeta prep locally.
The fact that the US horses didn't get the big money is no excuse for trashing the race. Who the heck did Curlin beat when we were gloating about the best horse in the world?

As for the timing, to the Aussies, it's late summer, so it's like the end of the Saratoga or Del Mar meetings yet they still show up. In Hong Kong and Japan and Singapore, they are on northern time and their seasons are just picking up.

As for the horses involved being oldsters of little value, Gloria is 6 in his native Brazil. Allybar is 4 and Lizard's Desire is 4 in his native South Africa. Maybe if the US based trainers could figure out how to keep a horse around that long, some of them might develop a following, like HK's Good Baba who won the HK Mile for the 3rd time last fall at age 7. He's 16 for 39 and he's a KY bred. Many of those trainers with long lasting horses train on synthetics.

I love the irony of people complaining about the DWC siphoning off too many good American horses then complaining that running it on Tapeta makes it phony. You should be happy, maybe no Americans will bother. If you don't follow or care about interational racing, then why even look at or read about the DWC races?

Linny would the 6mil dollar winner be favorite in a overstakes this summer at 1 3/16ths at Monmouth Park? Get a grip these horses are basically 100k claimers MAYBE

[Lovely Laurel]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Linny would the 6mil dollar winner be favorite in a overstakes this summer at 1 3/16ths at Monmouth Park? Get a grip these horses are basically 100k claimers MAYBE

After digesting this thread for a day, there are several conclusions:

The group of horses in the DWC were not the best, but certainly not shabby.

There are many bettors with sour grapes. Especially those who publicly post their plays. Not saying my plays were any better. I didn't win.

Huge payouts in large races are not so unusual. '99, '02, '05, '09 Derby. Countless BC races.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Lovely Laurel

After digesting this thread for a day, there are several conclusions:

The group of horses in the DWC were not the best, but certainly not shabby.

There are many bettors with sour grapes. Especially those who publicly post their plays. Not saying my plays were any better. I didn't win.

Huge payouts in large races are not so unusual. '99, '02, '05, '09 Derby. Countless BC races.

Well if any of the Godolphin private purchased hadn't been Black Holed it could have been a luck better!

[Linny]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Linny would the 6mil dollar winner be favorite in a overstakes this summer at 1 3/16ths at Monmouth Park? Get a grip these horses are basically 100k claimers MAYBE

So our reigning Champion Older Male, a major G1 stakes winner and the winner of the Goodwood just got their butts spanked by a bunch of $100k claimers?

If that is the level of the field of the DWC, why didn't a bunch of folks with $100k claimers and listed horses make the trip?