Question re: Sky Mesa

[chucklestheclown]

Satan's Quick Chick is running today?

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You said it didn't you?

No, I didn't. A poster had suggested that I was wrong for getting into an argument on TBC (obviously a slam at TBC which doesn't appear to be highly regarded here) and I used a poster's comment about Sky Diva as an example. I wasn't knocking Sky Diva - I'm sorry she obviously got hurt and never ran as a 3 year old - but she ran a very poor race in the Demoiselle. That poster was trying to suggest that any race where you finish in the top 3 in a graded race is a good performance....and that's not rue. Sky Diva was the favorite in that race and got trounced. I was trying to back up that poster in his opinion about TBC.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

Satan's Quick Chick is running today?

They entered her for the turf, which is odd. I assumed she was a MTO, but the race is still on the turf and she's still in it.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What is wrong with the response? You dont like facts or figures that may support the opposing point of view?

Perhaps you dont think much of the horses on the list which is fine but they are stakes winners and graded stakes placed horses which means they have been able to produce good form at the highest levels of racing. That is tangible and somewhat measurable. It is easy on horseracing boards to say that they suck or arent much but they have outperformed 95% of their peers on the track.

Not to mention that his horses on a whole have earned and the babies sell well for a stallion in the 25-35 range.

Only someone who didnt understand the racing game or breeding business would label Sky Mesa stallion career as anything less than very succcessful.

I didn't have problem with your post until you added "yeah he sucks" or whatever. I never said he sucked, but I expected Sky Mesa to be a superstar sire and yes, he's disappointed me in that regard. I did later admit that it's possible for him to be a good sire without being a leading sire......Because SM is not a leading sire, that lead me to think he wasn't very good at all. I'm fine with being wrong. Since I adore Indy and Pulpit, believe me, I have every reason to want Sky Mesa to succeed. By the way, did you expect Sky Mesa to be a great sire? If so, has he lived up to your expectations?

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There are some sharp people that post in the Breeding/sales section of TBC.

And for the record I dont nor have I owned a single Sky Mesa (regretfully)

What does Tapit's success have to do with Sky Mesa's?

Nothing - I just threw it out there.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You did this all by yourself.


???

No, I just have or had a different opinion. You did completely misread my post; I wasn't using Sky Diva as an example of my opinion about Sky Mesa - not even close.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Betsy

No, I just have or had a different opinion. You did completely misread my post; I wasn't using Sky Diva as an example of my opinion about Sky Mesa - not even close.

The "you did this all by yourself" is in reference to the bolded part of the post he was responding to. The part where you say Sky Mesa is not a leading sire. You repeated it in one of your most recent posts.

According to the statistics posted, he in fact, is a leading sire (leading 2nd crop sire in 2008).

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The "you did this all by yourself" is in reference to the bolded part of the post he was responding to. The part where you say Sky Mesa is not a leading sire. You repeated it in one of your most recent posts.

According to the statistics posted, he in fact, is a leading sire (leading 2nd crop sire in 2008).

Ok, well he's not in the class of the very best. He's not Indy, Giant's Causeway, Medaglio D'Oro, Smart Strike, etc.... I don't get what's so wrong with me saying that. How is that not true? That's what I meant by Sky Mesa not being a leading sire.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I didn't have problem with your post until you added "yeah he sucks" or whatever. I never said he sucked, but I expected Sky Mesa to be a superstar sire and yes, he's disappointed me in that regard. I did later admit that it's possible for him to be a good sire without being a leading sire......Because SM is not a leading sire, that lead me to think he wasn't very good at all. I'm fine with being wrong. Since I adore Indy and Pulpit, believe me, I have every reason to want Sky Mesa to succeed. By the way, did you expect Sky Mesa to be a great sire? If so, has he lived up to your expectations?

Your expectations or mine have nothing to do with the numbers that the horse has posted as a sire so far. As Drugs pointed out his first crop as 2 yo's were slow to develop but they rapidly improved as SM was the leading second crop sire in 2008. Then he backed up that good year with another one last year when he ranked 2nd on the 2009 third crop sire list. That is three years worth of data and two of the three years were outstanding.

It is very difficult for a stallion with three crops to rank real high on the general sire list, especially one like SM who's 2 yos dont do much running early in the year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Ok, well he's not in the class of the very best. He's not Indy, Giant's Causeway, Medaglio D'Oro, Smart Strike, etc.... I don't get what's so wrong with me saying that. How is that not true? That's what I meant by Sky Mesa not being a leading sire.

AP Indy is represented by 15 crops
Giants causeway has 7 (everyone supersized)
Smart Strike 11 crops
Megdalia d'oro is one of the most successful young sires ever

Is he on par with these stallions? no not yet. Maybe he never will be. But if you compare almost any sire to these 4 they will not measure up. But it is hard to say that SM hasnt been anything other than a big success so far.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your expectations or mine have nothing to do with the numbers that the horse has posted as a sire so far. As Drugs pointed out his first crop as 2 yo's were slow to develop but they rapidly improved as SM was the leading second crop sire in 2008. Then he backed up that good year with another one last year when he ranked 2nd on the 2009 third crop sire list. That is three years worth of data and two of the three years were outstanding.

It is very difficult for a stallion with three crops to rank real high on the general sire list, especially one like SM who's 2 yos dont do much running early in the year.

That's fair....I guess I have been hard on him. I apologize for being so snippy as I hate getting into arguments on message boards, but just know that my original post was made in all sincerity. I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong about something........and it looks like I have.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

AP Indy is represented by 15 crops
Giants causeway has 7 (everyone supersized)
Smart Strike 11 crops
Megdalia d'oro is one of the most successful young sires ever

Is he on par with these stallions? no not yet. Maybe he never will be. But if you compare almost any sire to these 4 they will not measure up. But it is hard to say that SM hasnt been anything other than a big success so far.

Again, very fair. I'm glad to have been wrong, to be honest, because Pulpit seems to be the one who's going to carry on the Bold Ruler line (well, I'm anxious to see Bernardini's babies). Now I'm waiting to see how Corinthian does....

[RolloTomasi]

I'm waiting for someone to quantify the incidence of cryptorchidism and other fertility issues in the A.P. Indy line now that he's a sire of sires.

"The perfect horse" as the commercial claims.

[packerbacker7964]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I think if Cannon hadn't responded like he did, I would have been more open to what he was saying. I never said Sky Mesa sucked - I just said I didn't think he was all that great. He also completely missed my point about Sky Diva - and then made it sound like I was ignorant.

I will say that maybe I'm holding the expectations I had for him against him. Just because he's not a leading sire doesn't mean he's not had success. If I look at it from the perspective that most sires don't even have the succeess he's had, then yes - he's been a fine sire. Are his oldest horses 5 ? I think so.... I suppose his best foals should be upcoming as they are the offspring of mares that were bred to him after his super 2nd year

Mineshaft is a weird story. His oldest foals are only 5, but he really has been mediocre. I hope that this year indicates a turn around for him because AP Indy isn't going to last forever; with his fertility problems, he may be pensioned sooner than we think. As far as I'm concerned, the more sires to carry on the Seattle Slew line, the better. I'm interested to see if they'll let Discreetly Mine rate in the LA Derby. I suspect not because Castellano made a point to say he's a speedy horse.

Maybe you should become a breeder?

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Danzig

note to self:

when someone wants to know if they're wrong, don't answer!

I thought about that but instead went for the one word answer "Yes"