Will You Please Ride My Horse? (Again) - Page 3

RolloTomasi · #41 06-30-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So my question is if you ride the Derby winner and think he's such a good little horse, why are you making multi-race committments to other horses that could be pointed to races on the same day or even to the same races? I think it either comes down to Borel didn't make the committment to the other trainer or if he did, he really doesn't think all that much of Mine that Bird. I wonder which it is? And even if you didn't make this committment, isn't there a chance that Rachel could run in the Travers? I don't understand why Woolley didn't committ to another rider going into the Preakness. Mine that Bird is obviously not going to be Borel's first choice in any potential conflicts.

What might be an interesting development in this soap opera is whether or not Rachel Alexandra's connections are waiting for an opportunity to dump Borel for stable jock Robby Albarado.

You could make a case that they were planning such a move right after buying her, as they seemed to be dragging their feet (while Mine That Bird's camp sought commitment from Borel) before deciding to run (or not run) the filly in both the Preakness and Belmont.

Danzig · #42 06-30-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

http://www.drf.com/news/article/105087.html

Basically, the article says that Borel has given a two race committment to some other people to ride their horse. The two races they plan on running the other horse (Warrior's Reward) are the Dwyer this weekend and the Jim Dandy.....on the same day as Mine that Bird is planned on running in the WV Derby. Woolley is saying he's going to ask for a firm committment in the next day or two.

So my question is if you ride the Derby winner and think he's such a good little horse, why are you making multi-race committments to other horses that could be pointed to races on the same day or even to the same races? I think it either comes down to Borel didn't make the committment to the other trainer or if he did, he really doesn't think all that much of Mine that Bird. I wonder which it is? And even if you didn't make this committment, isn't there a chance that Rachel could run in the Travers? I don't understand why Woolley didn't committ to another rider going into the Preakness. Mine that Bird is obviously not going to be Borel's first choice in any potential conflicts.

it's a different situation than what is normally faced with a derby winning horse. how often do the connections come from new mexico? this is akin to mike smith taking off for the belmont to ride in cali-it's where he rides, and for a stable in which he's the first call rider. borel has people he usually rides for, it's not a surprise that he would make a multi-race commitment at all-especially when it's someone he has ridden for before, and will again. woolly will eventually head back to new mexico-it's not as tho borel would have long term benefits by sticking with just one horse, even tho that one horse is the derby winner.

philcski · #43 06-30-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

this I will agree with you on. Not Adam Lambert. Lambert may not have even been able to deal with the pressure of winning a derby or even riding in a derby. Horse would have found trouble and lost.. Calvin was the only guy who would have done what was done IMO... take the horse back like 20 lenghts and make a huge run on the rail.

Adam Lambert is still recovering from his loss. I voted for him though.

King Glorious · #44 06-30-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's a different situation than what is normally faced with a derby winning horse. how often do the connections come from new mexico? this is akin to mike smith taking off for the belmont to ride in cali-it's where he rides, and for a stable in which he's the first call rider. borel has people he usually rides for, it's not a surprise that he would make a multi-race commitment at all-especially when it's someone he has ridden for before, and will again. woolly will eventually head back to new mexico-it's not as tho borel would have long term benefits by sticking with just one horse, even tho that one horse is the derby winner.

But wouldn't it seem reasonable that if Borel has those feelings of loyalty to people he knows like that, they would be reasonable with him and understand that he's not just picking any horse over theirs but he's picking the Derby winner? If they are putting him in the position of having to chose them now or losing mounts from them later and not even understanding the special situation he's in, why would he even want to ride for them? It would seem like that's a very one-sided relationship where he's doing something for them out of friendship and loyalty but they can't reciprocate.

Danzig · #45 06-30-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

But wouldn't it seem reasonable that if Borel has those feelings of loyalty to people he knows like that, they would be reasonable with him and understand that he's not just picking any horse over theirs but he's picking the Derby winner? If they are putting him in the position of having to chose them now or losing mounts from them later and not even understanding the special situation he's in, why would he even want to ride for them? It would seem like that's a very one-sided relationship where he's doing something for them out of friendship and loyalty but they can't reciprocate.

i think you're overstating the need to cater only to the derby winner. he's one horse, borel is trying to make moves to help his career. mine that birds derby win helped him, but it won't continue to help him if he makes all his future moves based on where one horse may go. he's got a multi-race deal set up now-he's supposed to give up several races because of the wva derby? his commitment means nothing if he can say 'nevermind' just because it's mine that bird. he won't have commitments for long if everything is based on 'yeah, i'll ride as long as MTB is off that day'. woolly is new mexico-borel hasn't got a future with that trainer.

as for friendship and loyalty-explain that to hal wiggins. this is a business first and foremost. borels agent busts his hump to get his guy rides-that's the point in multi-race deals. he's guaranteed several starts now, which may parlay into further business down the road.
borel did woolly a favor-both sides benefitted. but i think it's a reach to assume every further move by borel and his agent has to be predicated on one horse-especially one based in new mexico.

King Glorious · #46 06-30-2009, 07:16 PM

Perhaps that's all true but I can't see any rider making a committment to ride an allowance winner over a horse he's won the Derby with unless he really doesn't think that much of his Derby winner. Not that far out in advance.

#47 06-30-2009, 07:19 PM

Is it really that big a deal to keep Borel on top for the WVa
Derby? I got the impression this would just be a race to pick
up some earnings and make a showing,
not like the horse would be in a fight for his
life and must have an expert ride.

Danzig · #48 06-30-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Perhaps that's all true but I can't see any rider making a committment to ride an allowance winner over a horse he's won the Derby with unless he really doesn't think that much of his Derby winner. Not that far out in advance.

no telling when he made the commitment tho-i was surprised the wva was on the radar anyway...i didn't expect it, maybe borel didn't either.

hell, he got what he needed from the derby ride. so did woolly for that matter.

Gander · #49 06-30-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gales0678

pouring now

1/5 - off the turf

12/1 - on

Lets hope they all come off and its a sloppy track on the main.

King Glorious · #50 06-30-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

no telling when he made the commitment tho-i was surprised the wva was on the radar anyway...i didn't expect it, maybe borel didn't either.

hell, he got what he needed from the derby ride. so did woolly for that matter.

I don't know exactly when the committment was made either but it's been known that MTB was going in the WV Derby for a little while now. Even if it wasn't that race, there was the possibility of the Dandy for him. And then after that, the connections of both are probably thinking Travers so there was going to be a conflict somewhere along the line.

I don't have a problem with Borel making the choice he's made, if in fact he's going to stick with the other horse. The only thing I find interesting about it all is how little he thinks of the Derby winner to where he's make this committment to another horse before that horse is even a stakes winner.

philcski · #51 06-30-2009, 09:07 PM

The only thing I don't get out of this is why they keep trying to send Warrior's Reward around two turns. So far he's been spectacular in both one-turn races and mediocre around two.

chucklestheclown · #52 07-01-2009, 02:18 AM

The only thing I don't get is why Borail is thinking long-term. If he is not over 45 he sure looks it. He only has 2 or 3 years left and has his money.