Pletcher BC positive; Hearing pending

[Kasept]

Split sample results finally end month of speculation as Pletcher hit with procaine positive on Wait a While's BC F&M Turf third..

http://www.drf.com/news/article/100363.html

Pletcher had reportedly Emailed clients yesterday informing them of the results of the CHRB investigation.

Further, unconfirmed reports have Overbrook Farms having recently removed horses from Pletcher's care.

[CSC]

This is a good lightening rod for a discussion topic, for awhile now I have wanted to mention the all too familiar "previously trained by Todd Pletcher" comment line recently seen in the lines of the racing form. It would seem Todd has gone from wonderboy to just boy now, interesting Metamorphisis in the relative fall of an Eclipse winning trainer.

[Dr. Watson]

Originally Posted by CSC

It would seem Todd has gone from wonderboy to just boy now, interesting Metamorphisis in the relative fall of an Eclipse winning trainer.

steve asmussen will win the eclipse this year. im not so sure his victory would restore a whole lot of integrity back to the name of eclipse award winning trainer. overbrook still has horses that race? holy toledo!

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Dr. Watson

steve asmussen will win the eclipse this year. im not so sure his victory would restore a whole lot of integrity back to the name of eclipse award winning trainer. overbrook still has horses that race? holy toledo!

Yeah, most of the Overbrook horses are with Dallas Stewart. Thus, why you never hear of any of them.

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Yeah, most of the Overbrook horses are with Dallas Stewart. Thus, why you never hear of any of them.

someone tell D.Wayne Lukas to get some additional stalls for his next meet please, he should be receiving a call here shortly

-bt-

[Oaklawnfan]

Originally Posted by -BT-

someone tell D.Wayne Lukas to get some additional stalls for his next meet please, he should be receiving a call here shortly

-bt-

It's a little crowded, but he could take them all to Oaklawn.

[AeWingnut]

How many nanograms would it take to enhance performance?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

How many nanograms would it take to enhance performance?

Mepivacaine basically allows a horse to run his/her heart out because it dulls any pain to a horse. You can imagine the effect this would have on a horse's performance. Notable trainer's to have tested positive for having Mepivacaine in their horses are Dutrow, Mullins, Asmussen, and Pletcher. The how many nanograms is a mute issue if you ask me, the question should be why was it in a horse's system in the first place, the answer to me is obvious if you see what the common trait of the vast majority of these trainers horses strengths are/were. There's a common thread.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by CSC

Mepivacaine basically allows a horse to run his/her heart out because it dulls any pain to a horse. You can imagine the effect this would have on a horse's performance. Notable trainer's to have tested positive for having Mepivacaine in their horses are Dutrow, Mullins, Asmussen, and Pletcher. The how many nanograms is a mute issue if you ask me, the question should be why was it in a horse's system in the first place, the answer to me is obvious if you see what the common trait of the vast majority of these trainers horses strengths are/were. There's a common thread.

if Mepivacaine is allowed at some level, it isn't a mute point. if it doesn't actually enhance performance with levels so low you have to go nano to even find it...

though I have never tried the stuff I imagine a nanogram of cocaine won't get you high but cocaine isn't allowed at all.

I remember Brass Hat lost his placing at Dubai because they found something in his system they said he could have.

I have a different metabolism than you and I imagine horses can differ. I'm just saying I don't know if the intent was to cheat or they are clueless. I'm not pro-drug but I imagine it is like Lasix. No one wants to find out on race day that they should have used it. (like EVERYONE else)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

Mepivacaine basically allows a horse to run his/her heart out because it dulls any pain to a horse. You can imagine the effect this would have on a horse's performance. Notable trainer's to have tested positive for having Mepivacaine in their horses are Dutrow, Mullins, Asmussen, and Pletcher. The how many nanograms is a mute issue if you ask me, the question should be why was it in a horse's system in the first place, the answer to me is obvious if you see what the common trait of the vast majority of these trainers horses strengths are/were. There's a common thread.

mepivicaine is regularly used to try to determine where the point of unsoundness. It is hardly a sinister drug unless it was given at high doese close to the race. A few hours after it is given the horse will go back to being unsound. Remember that the testing procedure is strictly a detection device, not a performance enhancement issue.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

mepivicaine is regularly used to try to determine where the point of unsoundness. It is hardly a sinister drug unless it was given at high doese close to the race. A few hours after it is given the horse will go back to being unsound. Remember that the testing procedure is strictly a detection device, not a performance enhancement issue.

I'm curious Chuck what if a trainer is using masking agents such as 'lidocaine', is it possible that would that reduce traces of mepivacaine or other drugs. Everyone seems to be so concerned about the dosage, we tend to neglect the drugs that are not detected.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'm curious Chuck what if a trainer is using masking agents such as 'lidocaine', is it possible that would that reduce traces of mepivacaine or other drugs. Everyone seems to be so concerned about the dosage, we tend to neglect the drugs that are not detected.

lidocaine is in the same family of drugs and would cause a positive test as well, it wouldn't be used as a masking agent.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'm curious Chuck what if a trainer is using masking agents such as 'lidocaine', is it possible that would that reduce traces of mepivacaine or other drugs. Everyone seems to be so concerned about the dosage, we tend to neglect the drugs that are not detected.

Masking agents are useless when you are testing at the nanogram and picogram levels. Not that lidocaine would be considered a masking agent. I have said a million times that 95% of the time the drugs that you hear about are not the real problem, it is the ones that there is no testing for or even an awareness level by the authorities for.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by CSC

Mepivacaine basically allows a horse to run his/her heart out because it dulls any pain to a horse. You can imagine the effect this would have on a horse's performance. Notable trainer's to have tested positive for having Mepivacaine in their horses are Dutrow, Mullins, Asmussen, and Pletcher. The how many nanograms is a mute issue if you ask me, the question should be why was it in a horse's system in the first place, the answer to me is obvious if you see what the common trait of the vast majority of these trainers horses strengths are/were. There's a common thread.

Mepivicane is also used as a diagnostic tool to find lameness , you block a horse out starting at the foot and work your way up until it blocks out or not .
My thought on the Mepivicane positive is that most likely one of the Asst. had a horse blocked out found the problem treated it and then perhaps didnt bother to tell the boss exactly when the horse was blocked to avoid being entered too early , the boss entered and boom he gets a positive, because I just cant imiagine someone actually thinking they could get away with treating a horse with Mepivicane for a race and thinking thay can get away with it , at least not at the level TAP races at. Once again Im sticking with knocking all the Asst, Trainers heads together and telling them to either pull their heads out of their ass or leave. Its just plain retarded that someone cant keep track of what the hell is going on.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Honu

Mepivicane is also used as a diagnostic tool to find lameness , you block a horse out starting at the foot and work your way up until it blocks out or not .
My thought on the Mepivicane positive is that most likely one of the Asst. had a horse blocked out found the problem treated it and then perhaps didnt bother to tell the boss exactly when the horse was blocked to avoid being entered too early , the boss entered and boom he gets a positive, because I just cant imiagine someone actually thinking they could get away with treating a horse with Mepivicane for a race and thinking thay can get away with it , at least not at the level TAP races at. Once again Im sticking with knocking all the Asst, Trainers heads together and telling them to either pull their heads out of their ass or leave. Its just plain retarded that someone cant keep track of what the hell is going on.

you might have a reasonable point except this was WAIT A WHILE... maybe the best horse in his entire barn and everyone knew where her next start would be, in what race, on what day.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by philcski

you might have a reasonable point except this was WAIT A WHILE... maybe the best horse in his entire barn and everyone knew where her next start would be, in what race, on what day.

Exactly my point......

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Honu

Mepivicane is also used as a diagnostic tool to find lameness , you block a horse out starting at the foot and work your way up until it blocks out or not .
My thought on the Mepivicane positive is that most likely one of the Asst. had a horse blocked out found the problem treated it and then perhaps didnt bother to tell the boss exactly when the horse was blocked to avoid being entered too early , the boss entered and boom he gets a positive, because I just cant imiagine someone actually thinking they could get away with treating a horse with Mepivicane for a race and thinking thay can get away with it , at least not at the level TAP races at. Once again Im sticking with knocking all the Asst, Trainers heads together and telling them to either pull their heads out of their ass or leave. Its just plain retarded that someone cant keep track of what the hell is going on.

Come now, that's just way to easy an excuse. I'm sure Mr. Pletcher knows exactly what is going on in his stable. From what I have read and heard of him he is a person of immaculate detail.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

How many nanograms would it take to enhance performance?

There is virtually no medication that could effect performance at the nanogram level. The point of the exercise is dectecting the drug to attempt to determine if the drug was given after the allowed time frame. There is virtually no research done to reach these levels. Often they are randomly determined by the lab doing the testing in conjunction with the state doing the testing. One of the reasons that the RMTC was a good idea is to get all the states to come to grips with having the same testing levels and hopefully one day they will actually determine the levels that a drug can actually still have an effect and come up with an adequate withdrawl time so that we dont have all the gray areas that we currently still have.