Breeders' Cup; some thoughts

[Scav]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I guess I need to start paying attn... Sure didnt look that comparable on paper to me. They bet him early and often, so I guess they knew what they had. SoF and Eagle just looked alot better on paper.

I completely agree on paper, he was a touch slow on the sheets also. He looked pretty good on the track and Brockguy was in love with him and I liked the weight break......

[Hwjb]

Originally Posted by CSC

Any chance Kinane gets back with Coolmore? He is clearly better than Murtagh in my opinion.

You clearly don't watch enough European racing, because that's bilge of the highest order!

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

You clearly don't watch enough European racing, because that's bilge of the highest order!

Murtagh is a good enough Jockey from what I have seen of him through the years and in mostly replays being that we are here and the only access to races is usually on replay, but check the title of the thread.

From what I have seen, he is behind Dettori, Soumillion, Fallon in terms of quality rides. But I won't argue with you if you are a fan of his. I didn't say he was bad, only that he was bad on Saturday.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

OK, I will.

I've been to Arc weekend, and think it's a great event, but comparing it to the BC makes no sense whatsoever. The BC provides races, and opportunities, from the very beginning, for Europeans to do what they are trained for....i.e turf racing. Now they have gone a step further, and provided another surface that mitigates the excellence of our horses while enhancing the chances of the Euros ( which, by the way, are often US bred ).

Until Longchamp, or Royal Ascot, put in a dirt course and put up a series of races that provide opportunities for our horses to shine you cannot fairly compare any days, or meets, over there to the BC.

[The Bid]

The Euros arent stupid enough to alter their tradition rich racing, only we are.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Bid

The Euros arent stupid enough to alter their tradition rich racing, only we are.

Yes and no.

The BC is far from " tradition rich. " It is actually nouveau riche.

[The Bid]

Im talking more about our racing in general. Its tradition, all our champions, the greats of the game, all of these are established on the dirt. I just dont understand how we can change the surface and push it over as just being better for horses

I love horses, but the horses arent the ones who send in the money, the players are. When they switched to these crappy carpets it made it impossible to formulate a rock solid opinion, one you feel really confident in. I score on a horse this weekend at CHD named Godlophin Grey, he couldnt pick his feet up on carpet, and won like a monster at CHD. It just brings in more variables to a game that was very hard to beat originally.

Im disappointed we didnt have the forethought to realize what changing surfaces would do to serious players. Why would California mandate synthetics, but not mandate all tracks out there have the same surface? Whos in charge of all this buffoonery

[blackthroatedwind]

Obviously I want what is best for the players, and surely I didn't bet this BC with any confidence either ( it was far and away my lowest BC handle since I had more than a few bucks in my pocket ), but I think your point about taking our supposed championship races off of our " championship " surface is the more important one in this particular case. The fact is, the people running the BC have diverted their perspective, to be nice, and in doing so have robbed this event of whatever standing it once had.

[westcoastinvader]

I'm disappointed we didnt have the forethought to realize what changing surfaces would do to serious players. Why would California mandate synthetics, but not mandate all tracks out there have the same surface? Whos in charge of all this buffoonery?



Perhaps some of the same folks who made domed football stadiums, invented multiple flavors of "astroturf" for baseball, or came up with the DH for one baseball league but not the other?

Personally, I don't mind the differences.

I will offer that "pro ride" looks nice up close and personal. I don't mind "tapeta," but up close and personal it does remind me of cupcake sprinkles.

[ELA]

So, some sharp handicappers had some very strong and confident feelings how the track would play, they played that way and won strong. Some thought it would play a certain way, didn't play anywhere near what they normally would, win, lose, draw. Others perhaps had no idea and got killed.

With all the critisizing, and there is room for a lot of it, I think sometimes we overlook some things. First -- I said it before -- Richard Migliore won his first Breeders Cup. Sometimes the right thing -- a great thing -- happens to the right person. His victory is proof of that. This was long overdue and personally I have already forgot how much money I bet, won, lost, and so on. But it will be one hell of a long time before I forget how I felt when I saw Mig closing in on Diabolical and when I realized he was going to win it. Sound corny? OK, I'll accept that. I am proud to call him a friend -- a man with a passion that knows no boundaries.

Second, everyone -- equine athletes -- came home safe. No equine ambulances. Forget about the debate of synthetics. I don't care what track the BC was held at. Two days of racing, no horses broke down, hurt, vanned off. Yeah, I am happy about that.

Third, everyone -- human athletes -- came home safe. Thankfully. No bad accidents, no falls, broken bones, whatever. Sure, we are all human. We all make mistakes. But thankfully, all these guys (and gals, Chantal) came home, and showed up the next day for work.

Fourth -- Aqueudct opens this week. Then it's the inner. Before you know it it's Derby trail talk, TC talk, Belmont, Derby preps, the TC, and so on . . . and in the blink of a racing fan's eye . . . it's back up to the Spa.

Eric

[westcoastinvader]

Second, everyone -- equine athletes -- came home safe. No equine ambulances. Forget about the debate of synthetics. I don't care what track the BC was held at. Two days of racing, no horses broke down, hurt, vanned off. Yeah, I am happy about that.


I've shared similar sentiments before, but I could care less if our horses ran on the equivalent of fine art packing material.

I just want the best chance of them all getting back to the barn in good order.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Listen you said that you had an event similar to the breeders Cup. You dont. The races you mentioned are nice races but hardly the equal of the Breeders Cup especially in terms of monetary value. You yourself noted that you did not know much about the participants yet managed to rundown each race and the event as a whole. The Dubai World Cup is a pretty good meeting no?

Nice races?!? Are you really that ignorant? Newsflash - most owners across the Atlantic don't care about the Breeders' Cup; they care about winning the Arc, or the Abbaye, or the Moulin, which have pretty good purses, too. If they come to the BC, it is usually as an afterthought, or as a means of redemption for a poor run (didn't win the prestige race, go for the cash). Sometimes a sportsman sends his/her top-class horse to run, but previous experience has shown that which horses adapt to US conditions is a bit of a lottery and some don't care to take the chance since it cannot improve the horses' standing.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Nice races?!? Are you really that ignorant? Newsflash - most owners across the Atlantic don't care about the Breeders' Cup; they care about winning the Arc, or the Abbaye, or the Moulin, which have pretty good purses, too. If they come to the BC, it is usually as an afterthought, or as a means of redemption for a poor run (didn't win the prestige race, go for the cash). Sometimes a sportsman sends his/her top-class horse to run, but previous experience has shown that which horses adapt to US conditions is a bit of a lottery and some don't care to take the chance since it cannot improve the horses' standing.

If you stay on topic, this thread was about Europe having an event similar to the BC...nothing else. And they don't...neither in variety of surfaces and distances and ages nor cumilative purse values over a two day period. Obviously all those Europe races mentioned are nice, prestigeous, valuable, etc, etc races..but they are just that...individual races. And we'll see how much of an "afterthought" it is next year when they realize their turf only horses may be better off in the Classic than in one of their "nice" races.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Nice races?!? Are you really that ignorant? Newsflash - most owners across the Atlantic don't care about the Breeders' Cup; they care about winning the Arc, or the Abbaye, or the Moulin, which have pretty good purses, too. If they come to the BC, it is usually as an afterthought, or as a means of redemption for a poor run (didn't win the prestige race, go for the cash). Sometimes a sportsman sends his/her top-class horse to run, but previous experience has shown that which horses adapt to US conditions is a bit of a lottery and some don't care to take the chance since it cannot improve the horses' standing.

I may be ignorant but I posed a question to the Englishman and his response was this weekend of races was the European version of the breeders Cup which it most certainly is not. Perhaps if you got off your high horse and actully followed along with the thread you would see what we were talking about. Newsflash the Arc weekend is not that similar to the Breeders Cup despite the prestige or purses of a couple of the races.

[blackthroatedwind]

Connections must have been particularly excited by how both runnings of this year's Prix de L'Abbaye played out. If the BC had a disaster like that there would be 5000 internet threads about it......and 50,000 if it happened at a NYRA track. Fine job they did with that race.