Saratoga Condition book is out

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Where did they start the race?

Obviously it was easy at Aqueduct and a little trickier at Belmont where they had to start on the turn. I feel like Group Plan beating Wajima in 1975 ( it was a four horse field by the way ) may have been the last time.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The problem with having two 10f races so close together obviously is how to fill them. A top horse is expected to prep for the 10f jcgc with the 10f woodward and then possibly ship across the country for the BC at 10f. How many top horses are you going to get to do that? How many horses are you going to get to do that period, good horse or not?


Didnt that Suburban tell us something?

Hey , the BC Marathon is 12 F .

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Hey , the BC Marathon is 12 F .

Apparently your month vacation was not spent drying out.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Obviously it was easy at Aqueduct and a little trickier at Belmont where they had to start on the turn. I feel like Group Plan beating Wajima in 1975 ( it was a four horse field by the way ) may have been the last time.

A two mile race at Belmont without hedges to jump over is worthless.. I wouldn't mind if they coverted some of the 10f stuff to 12 and start the races in front of the stands that would be better for the on track patrons but who goes to the track anymore?

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Apparently your month vacation was not spent drying out.

It's almost post time at the FLakes. May the numbers that come out of your hats be in the money.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The problem with having two 10f races so close together obviously is how to fill them. A top horse is expected to prep for the 10f jcgc with the 10f woodward and then possibly ship across the country for the BC at 10f. How many top horses are you going to get to do that? How many horses are you going to get to do that period, good horse or not?


Didnt that Suburban tell us something?

What did it tell us?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

What did it tell us?

That regardless of the purse or prestige of the race, it is extremely difficult to get a decent field of handicap horses together for a 10f race on dirt.

The suburban was the only 10f Grade 1 race for older horses for months and I honestly can not name half of the field.

What good would it be to have two 10f races so close together in the fall? Wouldnt the Woodward have a better chance of filling with quality if it were 9f instead of 10f?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

That regardless of the purse or prestige of the race, it is extremely difficult to get a decent field of handicap horses together for a 10f race on dirt.

The suburban was the only 10f Grade 1 race for older horses for months and I honestly can not name half of the field.

What good would it be to have two 10f races so close together in the fall? Wouldnt the Woodward have a better chance of filling with quality if it were 9f instead of 10f?

Probably. But I don't think the Suburban failed to attract good horses because it was run at ten furlongs. I think it had more to do with the Foster and Hollywood Gold Cup being run two weeks earlier for $1,000,000 and $750,000 respectively, plus the reality that there just are very few good handicap horses out there.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Probably. But I don't think the Suburban failed to attract good horses because it was run at ten furlongs. I think it had more to do with the Foster and Hollywood Gold Cup being run two weeks earlier for $1,000,000 and $750,000 respectively, plus the reality that there just are very few good handicap horses out there.

True...especially the lack of good handicap horses.

I dont want to sound like an alarmist but something is going to have to give. We are either going to have to change the way we breed or change the way we race. Seeing how we are a society of instant gratification, I would imagine it would be more practical to change the way we race.

What I am getting at is the races are going to have to start getting shorter in order for them to fill. Do you agree?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Unstable

I'm pulling for the 5 1/2F race #2 on Thursday Aug 7, or the 6F race #4 on Aug 10, or even the 5 1/2F on turf race # 2 on Aug 10... all which coincide with my trip to Saratoga this year.

How about it, Chuck? Is Aug 1 too soon for the first race? Is 5 1/2F or 6F too far?

Aug 10th is a possibility

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Aug 10th is a possibility

Good (possible) news!

Thanks!

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Aug 10th is a possibility

or Travers Week

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

True...especially the lack of good handicap horses.

I dont want to sound like an alarmist but something is going to have to give. We are either going to have to change the way we breed or change the way we race. Seeing how we are a society of instant gratification, I would imagine it would be more practical to change the way we race.

What I am getting at is the races are going to have to start getting shorter in order for them to fill. Do you agree?

Nah, I don't think so. I don't think there's all that much difference between a nine-furlong handicap horse and a ten-furlong handicap horse. Plus, the sprint and miler divisions are no great shakes either. I just think we caught a crappy year in terms of older horses, and the retirements of Street Sense, Any Given Saturday and Hard Spun didn't help..

[Linny]

Between the retirements of last years leading (except Curlin) 3yo's and the infrequent appearances of those that remain, the once great "Handicap Division" could get by now with about 5 G1's all year.

Look at Frost Giant. He scratched from a NW2x on the week of the Suburban. Had he run and lost (or maybe even won) he'd have probably run back again at Belmont then maybe 2 more times at Saratoga. Now that he's a G1 winner, he will rest until the JCGC. WTF???!!!!!
This is what happens to a horse that wins a G1, even if he's not really what most of us would call a "G1" horse.