Inducement for stamina-building breeding?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

ornery?

He was so mad he may have become aroused?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He was so mad he may have become aroused?

I just choked on my free-range, grain fed, organic egg salad

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I agree with this and have suggested it elsewhere. Maybe not necessarily across the board, but wouldn't the elimination of graded designations for at least juvenile races preclude certain "stallion producing" stables and farms from securing breeding rights to top 2yos with the intention of early retirement?

I think purse restrictions on the top 2yo races would also discourage those sorts of moves, though it might not be particularly fair in the short term for owners trying to make money by actually racing their horses.

I guess I was thinking more of the fillies as most of the stallion making races dont need grades for anyone to know they are important. The grade just overinflates the value of so many fillies that may stick around another year to try to pad the resume if they dont have that grade to fall back on. Who knows how many would thrive with another year of racing? But you do have a point on the premature breeding rights deals.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Kasept

From Alan Shuback's wrap-up of closing day at Ascot... Note the condition of the race the Queen's colt won...


Queen Elizabeth had something to cheer about as her juvenile colt Free Agent won the listed seven-furlong Chesham Stakes by 2 1/4 lengths as the 7-2 co-favorite with runner-up Seaway. A son of Dr Fong, Free Agent was winning for the second time in two starts in a race restricted to horses whose sires had won going at least 1 1/4 miles.


Isn't this a viable model for the way to build interest in the 'unfashionable' stamina-tinged sires/sire lines? Pleasant Tap, Broad Brush sons, etc? Can be "sires who won going at least 1 1/8 miles", or whatever...

It should be noted that the first two home in that race were both by Dr. Fong, who, yes, did win at 10f, but who's Group 1 form was displayed at a flat mile.

The third place horse was by FuPeg, who some might say outstayed his pedigree being a son of Mr. Prospector. The 4th place horse I think was by Hawk Wing, again, another horse probably at his best racing a mile. Incidentally, one of the trailers was by Peintre Celebre, the only sire represented in the race that was a true distance horse, having won the French Derby (when it was 12f) and the Arc.

In theory, the idea might work, but at least as far as this race goes, it just seems like easy pickings for the progeny of precocious stallions who happened to get it done once or twice over a distance of ground.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I just choked on my free-range, grain fed, organic egg salad

free range eggs??? what, they lay in the sun instead of an incubator??

[Payson Dave]

How do you feed grain to an egg???

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

How do you feed grain to an egg???

that's a damn good question.


do the eggs KNOW they're free range? or do they still just lay there thinking they're trapped??

[ateamstupid]

How about races limited to horses whose parents weren't made of glass.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

How about races limited to horses whose parents weren't made of glass.

Are there any left?

[Bobby Fischer]

with the BC Marathon being on synthetic for 2 straight years, the horses that should be entering are the more competitive also rans from Arlington Million and Sword Dancer days.

11 and 12 furlong turf horses who are almost good enough to try the BC Turf.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Danzig

free range eggs??? what, they lay in the sun instead of an incubator??

it was a reference to a certain someone who finds my eating habits rather unorthodox....free-range as in outdoor chickens (from the Amish farm up the street in this case)....grain fed as in no hormones or other animals.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

it was a reference to a certain someone who finds my eating habits rather unorthodox....free-range as in outdoor chickens (from the Amish farm up the street in this case)....grain fed as in no hormones or other animals.

I won't eat eggs unless I know where they came from as well. I go to the farmers market on Saturday mornings and get them from a local farmer who treats his chickens better than most people treat their children.

Originally Posted by paisjpq

it was a reference to a certain someone who finds my eating habits rather unorthodox....free-range as in outdoor chickens (from the Amish farm up the street in this case)....grain fed as in no hormones or other animals.

You trust Amish that are roaming about with chickens at night by candle light?

Subject:
Ulitmately the people that watch racing are going to have to want to lay down money on longer races. The longer races would be carded more often, feedback mechanism... ?

Is this not what it would take for longer races to actually find a viable niche? It it pretty obvious quarter horse races are not as popular as T-breds and my guess would be they are to short and subject to a greater degree of randomness.

[ELA]

As far as "inducement" -- OK, here's the deal. First, there is no "just one answer" so to speak. It must be multi-faceted. It must be economic based and/or driven -- breeders and owners. Second, it needs to be long-term. This won't happen in one meet. It won't happen in one year.

You need to start looking at races where horses are eligible -- if their sire won at a certain distance or more, if the horse himself won at a certain distance or more, twice at a distance or more, and so on. Set the limit (1m and 1/16 or 1/8) and then add to it. Get a higher purse attached to it, or make it a series (not very popular in thoroughbred racing) with a stake at the end.

Now, with the breeders -- you have to look at bread and butter breeder. In today's day and age, there is very little you can do to totally overhaul an "industry". Far too many -- almost everyone who plays the young horse game -- they'd rather pay more for a more finished product. Sure, there are exceptions, but the pinhooking game has become a monster industry. Thus, the breeders breed for it, the pinhookers buy for it, and so do the end users. Because the economics are there. Try and get the BC to offer more money for the 3yo's and older horses than they do for the 2yo's -- and the big time breeders will have you thrown out of the industry.

Where do you start? Again, multi-faceted. Revamp various statebred programs -- by collaborative, strategic alliances (yeah, I know, never gonna happen) -- and offer graduated breeders awards (perhaps age, distance, series/stakes). Have sponsors direct money toward older horses and longer distance races. Make it worthwhile. Creative, out of the box thinking -- which this industry has always had trouble with.

I'd love to see it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Eric

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

it was a reference to a certain someone who finds my eating habits rather unorthodox....free-range as in outdoor chickens (from the Amish farm up the street in this case)....grain fed as in no hormones or other animals.

i was just poking fun....but nothing like fresh eggs!

Originally Posted by Danzig

i was just poking fun....but nothing like fresh eggs!

How about when ya crack a fresh egg open and
a little chick embryo is in there.

Thatll spoil the breakfast a bit. All those little blood
vessels.
I miss my Grandmother's house but I dont
miss witnessing the joy of a fertilized chicken egg
being scrambled... uhhh Grandma... there is a little
chicken umongnst the scrambling.

Or watching one sizzle directly on the frying pan.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by pgardn

How about when ya crack a fresh egg open and
a little chick embryo is in there.

Thatll spoil the breakfast a bit. All those little blood
vessels.
I miss my Grandmother's house but I dont
miss witnessing the joy of a fertilized chicken egg
being scrambled... uhhh Grandma... there is a little
chicken umongnst the scrambling.

Or watching one sizzle directly on the frying pan.

Oh my God.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

How about when ya crack a fresh egg open and
a little chick embryo is in there.

Thatll spoil the breakfast a bit. All those little blood
vessels.
I miss my Grandmother's house but I dont
miss witnessing the joy of a fertilized chicken egg
being scrambled... uhhh Grandma... there is a little
chicken umongnst the scrambling.

Or watching one sizzle directly on the frying pan.

i've gotten a lot of fresh eggs recently, and that hasn't happened-yet. it's why you crack them over a separate bowl, rather than over the bowl with the good eggs. duh

[DogsUp]

I thought the problem revolved more around horses who have a genetic predisposition to physical problems being bred to other others who share that same trait.

I think that the industry needs a nice balance between sprint, middle-distance, and long distance races. I enjoy all types of races featuring all types of horses.

I could be way off base here, but maybe the industry needs to stop so much inbreeding.

I don't know....I am not an expert.....just a novice.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I agree with this and have suggested it elsewhere. Maybe not necessarily across the board, but wouldn't the elimination of graded designations for at least juvenile races preclude certain "stallion producing" stables and farms from securing breeding rights to top 2yos with the intention of early retirement?

I think purse restrictions on the top 2yo races would also discourage those sorts of moves, though it might not be particularly fair in the short term for owners trying to make money by actually racing their horses.

When graded started, there were no G1 races raced at 6f or 7f except a couple for 2yos. The only G1 race at 8f was the Met Mile and the only G1 race at 1 1/16 was the Californian (again for 3 and up). Including turf races. The Monmouth H (Iselin), Gulfstream Park H, Widener H and Woodward H were all G1 10f tests for the East Coast handicap horses, with the championship race at the end of the season the Jockey Club Gold Cup at 2 miles. And the 10f Trenton H and Meadowlands Cup gave G2 prep races and prizes for second level stayers. Horses who could stay less than 10f had limited chances to garner a G1 win after their 3yo spring.

The grading system has been warped and distorted by the committee that has set up the absurd 'objective' criteria that end up making G1s of sprints that tracks throw a lot of money into.