Zenyatta- 103 Beyer

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

On what basis are you possibly coming up with that? The mess of a track just as likely hurt her as it helped her. She'd run some big races when she was on fast dirt tracks.

no doubt the track moved her up that day, that was her biggest 2 turn race ever, several other front running horses ran out of their eyeballs that day. she has run nothing like that race before or after. same as Hard Spun, War Pass and Indian Blessing.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

no doubt the track moved her up that day, that was her biggest 2 turn race ever, several other front running horses ran out of their eyeballs that day. she has run nothing like that race before or after. same as Hard Spun, War Pass and Indian Blessing.

Might want to look up her PPs, Jim.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by smuthg

yeah, the Louisville... 4 clear of Leah's Secret and 6 lengths in front of Lear's Princess. I was at Oaklawn for her "flop" in the Apple Blossom; that rail was dead as hell all weekend and Ramon put her right on it...

As an aside, Lear's Princess is the biggest phony "Grade 1 horse" currently in training next to Shamdinan. She seemed fake before the BC and has done little to suggest otherwise since. She should stick to turf if she's gonna somehow resurrect her career.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Might want to look up her PPs, Jim.

you know i have, what is your point?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

you know i have, what is your point?

Aside from her close defeat in the BC, Hystericalady has lost just once (a race she emerged out of with injury) going two turns on conventional dirt. All other races under those conditions have been victories, all by open lengths, including one versus males. I think her Hollywood Oaks victory, numberswise, was the fastest two turn race by a 3yo filly in 2006.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

She ran a 110 Beyer as a 3 year old in the Hollywood Oaks, it was a monster effort. Last year she ran a 105 at Bay meadows against males and a 105 in the Molly Pitcher. All 3 efforts on fast tracks.

what was her beyer in the distaff?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what was her beyer in the distaff?

104 which I believe was her worst dirt figure of the year and her only run in the slop.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

you know i have, what is your point?

What they said

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

What they said

okay then. if she ever runs in another 9 furlong Gr1 i think there will be some surprised people. she has never run a race that fast early, middle, and late. her other good numbers were produced by more favorable set-ups. everything in her pp's tells me that she should have been slowing down much more at Monmouth in the late stages. but like I said she wasn't the only one that never slowed down that day.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

okay then. if she ever runs in another 9 furlong Gr1 i think there will be some surprised people. she has never run a race that fast early, middle, and late. her other good numbers were produced by more favorable set-ups. everything in her pp's tells me that she should have been slowing down much more at Monmouth in the late stages. but like I said she wasn't the only one that never slowed down that day.

The difference with those other frontrunners that held on (Indian Blessing, War Pass, Gotcha Gold, Hard Spun) was that they had things their own way in the early part of the race. Hystericalady broke from the outside post, dueled throughout, and still held sway. If it was solely the track that kept her going the whole time, and not her talent, then I wonder why other seemingly outclassed horses like Hard Spun and Gotcha Gold didn't make much more noise at the finish with more favorablel setups than their rather modest distant 2nd place finishes.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The difference with those other frontrunners that held on (Indian Blessing, War Pass, Gotcha Gold, Hard Spun) was that they had things their own way in the early part of the race. Hystericalady broke from the outside post, dueled throughout, and still held sway. If it was solely the track that kept her going the whole time, and not her talent, then I wonder why other seemingly outclassed horses like Hard Spun and Gotcha Gold didn't make much more noise at the finish with more favorablel setups than their rather modest distant 2nd place finishes.

i agree with this and don't claim it was solely the track, but I'm still suspicious of the outcome.

Hard Spun made about as much noise as one could expect, look at how he demolished Street Sense. What made Hard Spun suddenly become this beast that could run 10 furlongs and laugh at Street Sense?

Why wasn't Pyro able to close into those insane fractions and threaten War Pass like he did in the Champagne? As we now know War Pass had distance limitations which certanly weren't evident that day. An example is the Wood where War Pass again ran insane fractions but slowed to a crawl which allowed a horse less talented than Pyro to get by him.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Hysterical Lady was lucky that the track was a mess, otherwise she finishes worse off than she did.

If she wins I think I have to get a duffel bag for the score... DrugS was touted her and she is a super nice filly/mare.. I think the world of her

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

i agree with this and don't claim it was solely the track, but I'm still suspicious of the outcome.

Hard Spun made about as much noise as one could expect, look at how he demolished Street Sense. What made Hard Spun suddenly become this beast that could run 10 furlongs and laugh at Street Sense?

Why wasn't Pyro able to close into those insane fractions and threaten War Pass like he did in the Champagne? As we now know War Pass had distance limitations which certanly weren't evident that day. An example is the Wood where War Pass again ran insane fractions but slowed to a crawl which allowed a horse less talented than Pyro to get by him.

Street Sense sucks in the slop. That moved him back more than Hard Spun moved up.

Pyro may be the one with distance limitations. I think War Pass is more limited by how hard he's pressed out of the gate.

[PSH]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I have never thought that Zenyatta looked like Azeri. I always thought she looked much better than Azeri. Zenyatta has always looked like she is a male running against females. Too big and strong for them. She had no pace to chase, and it made no difference at all. To me, she is getting better, and stronger. This would be like a Tranny getting her T shots.

There was a filly out here in California a few years ago who was big and strong and her name was Manistique. I really really liked her and on her best day she could run really really big. However, in the end she was too inconsistent to be considered really top flight. Its still early for Zenyatta but it would be nice to see her shipped to the SPA this summer.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by PSH

There was a filly out here in California a few years ago who was big and strong and her name was Manistique. I really really liked her and on her best day she could run really really big. However, in the end she was too inconsistent to be considered really top flight. Its still early for Zenyatta but it would be nice to see her shipped to the SPA this summer.

I think the only races Manistique (coincidentally also trained by John Shireffs) ever lost were outside CA. She was really horrendous elsewhere. Of course, having to run against horses like Banshee Breeze instead of the typical CA pasties will do that for your overall record. She was also a horrendous producer.

At least Zenyatta has got the road trip thing handled.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Street Sense sucks in the slop. That moved him back more than Hard Spun moved up.

Pyro may be the one with distance limitations. I think War Pass is more limited by how hard he's pressed out of the gate.

<throws in the white towel>

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think the only races Manistique (coincidentally also trained by John Shireffs) ever lost were outside CA. She was really horrendous elsewhere. Of course, having to run against horses like Banshee Breeze instead of the typical CA pasties will do that for your overall record. She was also a horrendous producer.

At least Zenyatta has got the road trip thing handled.

solid analogy, some horses dont ship that well, take Sky Beauty for example, when running against NYRA patsies she was awsome ( ) but when shipping she fell apart.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

solid analogy, some horses dont ship that well, take Sky Beauty for example, when running against NYRA patsies she was awsome ( ) but when shipping she fell apart.

She shipped once....right?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She shipped once....right?

No. Twice.

She lost perhaps her toughest race, the '93 BC Distaff at SA aside from her horrendous '94 effort at Churchill.

Hollywood Wildcat, Paseana, Re Toss, and Dispute finished in front of her that day.

[blackthroatedwind]

I was actually thinking of 1993 at Santa Anita as I was there.

She was never that fast.