Disapointing '08 so far for...

[NTamm1215]

To get back to the original topic of this thread as well I would have nominated Backseat Rhythm. While she looked good today getting away with murder, she really has been average.

And then there's Blackberry Road.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

I think you are blaming Neil Howard and forgetting that Bill Farish, who owns Lane's End, owns the horse. You have to realize that the Met Mile is about as prestigeous a race as there is for breeders. Clearly they wanted to see if they felt he could win that race in order to solidify his standing as a stallion. I imagine Bill Farish ( correctly ) made the call. However, after his flat performance in the Westchester they decided to change course. Perhaps running him back in the Pimlico Special in 16 days was a mistake but don't forget it also was a sloppy track.

The bottom line is he's a very nice horse but probably not nearly as good as many ( not necessarily incorrectly ) believed after his bang up races at Saratoga last summer. Making a run at the Met makes real sense. They decided to prep for it to see where he stood....and found out. Right now it's sort of hard to know what to do as he needs to win a big race to be a significant stallion so they will have to take some shots. My best guess is they will point for the Whitney and hope Curlin doesn't show up.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

As much as I hated Daaher's big races - I suppose him.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Really? At what distance? 8-8.5 furlong race kip beats Einstein 9 out of 10times. At 9f its a good race, but I'd still give the nod to KD.

I don't agree. Kip Deville got the trip of a lifetime in both of his last two races. Now, Einstein had a decent trip in the Maker's Mark, but not as sweet as the winner's, and he lost by around a length. There are MANY scenerios where that order is reversed....and hardly one out of ten.

Sorry, I don't think Kip Deville is all that great. He's good but he's been a very lucky horse in some key races. You seem to be forgetting some relative clunkers he has run when he hasn't gotten an absolutely perfect trip.

Einstein's win at the Fair Grounds in 2007 is better than any race Kip Deville has ever run.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't agree. Kip Deville got the trip of a lifetime in both of his last two races. Now, Einstein had a decent trip in the Maker's Mark, but not as sweet as the winner's, and he lost by around a length. There are MANY scenerios where that order is reversed....and hardly one out of ten.

Sorry, I don't think Kip Deville is all that great. He's good but he's been a very lucky horse in some key races. You seem to be forgetting some relative clunkers he has run when he hasn't gotten an absolutely perfect trip.

Einstein's win at the Fair Grounds in 2007 is better than any race Kip Deville has ever run.

I'm not kissing ass when I say your opinions are clearly the most solid on this board, but you have, in my opinion, an indisputable bias against IEAH runners.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by justindew

I'm not kissing ass when I say your opinions are clearly the most solid on this board, but you have, in my opinion, an indisputable bias against IEAH runners.

Why, because from what I've seen so far of Big Brown he isn't Secretariat or because I actually judge Kip Deville by his entire resume and not just two perfect trip wins?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Because you didn't think Court Vision was a bargain for 50% at $5 million.

[Bobby Fischer]

kip deville sucks and einstien is average

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Because you didn't think Court Vision was a bargain for 50% at $5 million.

Right....they said they knew all along that Big Brown was a Derby horse, yet entered him on the turf in his debut, and paid $5 million for half of the slow Court Vision.

They have clearly made some excellent purchases.....but they have also made more than a few that have been swept under the rug. Not surprising, and surely not a disgrace, but also worth mentioning.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Why, because from what I've seen so far of Big Brown he isn't Secretariat or because I actually judge Kip Deville by his entire resume and not just two perfect trip wins?

More because nothing gets you fired up like someone giving props to an IEAH runner. Off the top of my head, I can name Court Vision, Pure Clan, Kip, and BB.

I'm not disagreeing with you, either. But I would submit that you are far more likely to argue against the merits of an IEAH horse than a non-IEAH horse.

Put it this way: If Sumitas were to state that an IEAH horse was a lock to win a race if only his jockey wasn't so-and-so, I think your head would explode.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't agree. Kip Deville got the trip of a lifetime in both of his last two races. Now, Einstein had a decent trip in the Maker's Mark, but not as sweet as the winner's, and he lost by around a length. There are MANY scenerios where that order is reversed....and hardly one out of ten.

Sorry, I don't think Kip Deville is all that great. He's good but he's been a very lucky horse in some key races. You seem to be forgetting some relative clunkers he has run when he hasn't gotten an absolutely perfect trip.

Einstein's win at the Fair Grounds in 2007 is better than any race Kip Deville has ever run.

I will say that if the 2 horses swapped trainers, that Einstein would be outstanding and Kip would just be OK. Not a knock against H Pitts, I think she is above average and like seeing her succeed. JMO

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by justindew

More because nothing gets you fired up like someone giving props to an IEAH runner. Off the top of my head, I can name Court Vision, Pure Clan, Kip, and BB.

I'm not disagreeing with you, either. But I would submit that you are far more likely to argue against the merits of an IEAH horse than a non-IEAH horse.

Put it this way: If Sumitas were to state that an IEAH horse was a lock to win a race if only his jockey wasn't so-and-so, I think your head would explode.

Pure Clan? I made a huge exacta with her second to the winner in the KY Oaks and talked at length about how the awful ride by Prado clearly cost her second. She was a serious victim of race dynamics in her prior race. I thought she was overrated off her races last year but has run OK this year.

Poor Sumitas.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I will say that if the 2 horses swapped trainers, that Einstein would be outstanding and Kip would just be OK. Not a knock against H Pitts, I think she is above average and like seeing her succeed. JMO

I just looked at Kip Deville's lifetime pps. You should too. It's a bit of an eye opener. Very nice horse, no doubt, but more than a few clunkers. His race at Monmouth last summer really sticks out recently.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by justindew

More because nothing gets you fired up like someone giving props to an IEAH runner. Off the top of my head, I can name Court Vision, Pure Clan, Kip, and BB.

I'm not disagreeing with you, either. But I would submit that you are far more likely to argue against the merits of an IEAH horse than a non-IEAH horse.

Put it this way: If Sumitas were to state that an IEAH horse was a lock to win a race if only his jockey wasn't so-and-so, I think your head would explode.

Im taking the side of the LIEAH stable runner and I promise Andy doesnt hate those d bags more than me.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I just looked at Kip Deville's lifetime pps. You should too. It's a bit of an eye opener. Very nice horse, no doubt, but more than a few clunkers. His race at Monmouth last summer really sticks out recently.

I didnt have the feeling that Kip was geared up for that race. I think Dutrow just wanted a spin over the BC course. I was trying to beat him that day but landed on the wrong runner.
As far as his other duds last year, I thought he was handled like a 5k claimer last year on the west coast. Couldn't beleive RD wheeled him back in 7 days if my memory serves me correctly.

Ill pull him up and refresh my brain.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

.

Originally Posted by sumitas

Court Vision is a lock to win the Ohio Derby as long as Gomez isn't his jockey.

.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

As much as I hated Daaher's big races - I suppose him.

#1 for me, I was expecting big things this year, even went to GP for the Donn, and got less than nothing.