NYRA Deal Passes NY Legislature

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What you are, among other things, is selective. You aren't viewing the entire picture, but instead choosing a very small piece, one that you don't understand at all, and harping on it to draw attention to yourself.

Without detailing the tax dollars that NYRA has brought to the State in the past, and explaining legislative hinderances that have encumbered NYRA while also detailing how other States ( like Kentucky for instance ) have aided the Thoroughbred industry through tax breaks, you are only telling a very small part of the story.

You also choose to completely ignore, as Steve alluded to, that NYRA was prevented from having slot machines by the very government that granted them to every other racetrack in the State. Had they been treated in the same manner, by the government, as all these other establishments, not only would these monies not be necessary, but the State of NY would have realized a great deal of other tax revenues. I don't hear you crying for the citizens of NY that were denied these dollars by the very government that you confusedly believe is handing out money to NYRA that you ignorantly compare to the Red Cross and Salvation Army.



Beyond this, you are making the usual simple minded mistake of lumping every leadership of NYRA together......as though the main people in charge today are the same as the different stewards NYRA has had in the past. This is a complete perversion of the truth. The existance of racing in NY State is of the utmost importance to the entire industry that many of us love and rely on for our livelihood. I defy you to tell me, specifically, which people you believe should be running racing in NY other than Steve Duncker and Charlie Hayward.

Yeah the State saved people millions of dollars in spite of themselves and lost some tax money that they would have to re dedicate to bailing out thousands of folks who lost their shirt.. Big Picture Sir...Don't micro process
How about you or Nader? Oh Nader's at HSBC private banking(good for him) running Sha Tin on Wednesday's great.

When a coach F's up at a major university the university and its teams take the hit. The point is NYRA never had to be accountable and people reasonably fear its continued lack of committment rational or not...

[blackthroatedwind]

No, they unreasonably fear it out of ignorance.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You don't have worry so much about New Yorkers and their tax dollars. You obviously didn't bother reading the legislation so you missed the part where the VLT operator will be paying the state that $105 million.

The state, former Gov. Pataki and Lottery Division head Jeff Perle should all just consider themselves lucky that NYRA did not push the conspiracy lawsuit they had lined up. Because they had a case...

Steve I didnt mention a thing about the tax payers paying back the $105 million. I mentioned the tax payers getting stiffed on $120 million. I think you should go back and re-read my post. Also, how would you feel if you had to pay back $105 million that the state loaned out to another business? I would be pissed if I was the operating company of the VLT's. However, I am sure they will keep their mouths clsoed because they just want in.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Would you not agree that it's a small price for the three pieces of real estate in Queens, Nassau County and Saratoga that NYRA turned over to the state yesterday?

As I wrote in an unpublished piece a few days ago, it's the best real estate deal the state of New York has engaged in since Peter Minuit bought Manhattan.

I agree that $120 million is a small price to pay for the three pieces of land. However, how does that help Joe taxpayer whose money was forgiven by the gov't?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by whodey17

I agree that $120 million is a small price to pay for the three pieces of land. However, how does that help Joe taxpayer whose money was forgiven by the gov't?

Quite simply actually.

Instead of NYRA acting in their absolute best interests, and taking their lock land claim to court, something that could well have halted racing for years, they made an agreement that will continue the flow of dollars to the State, and the taxpayers you are oddly concerned about.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by whodey17

I agree that $120 million is a small price to pay for the three pieces of land. However, how does that help Joe taxpayer whose money was forgiven by the gov't?

It is simply far to complex for you to understand.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What you are, among other things, is selective. You aren't viewing the entire picture, but instead choosing a very small piece, one that you don't understand at all, and harping on it to draw attention to yourself.

Without detailing the tax dollars that NYRA has brought to the State in the past, and explaining legislative hinderances that have encumbered NYRA while also detailing how other States ( like Kentucky for instance ) have aided the Thoroughbred industry through tax breaks, you are only telling a very small part of the story.

You also choose to completely ignore, as Steve alluded to, that NYRA was prevented from having slot machines by the very government that granted them to every other racetrack in the State. Had they been treated in the same manner, by the government, as all these other establishments, not only would these monies not be necessary, but the State of NY would have realized a great deal of other tax revenues. I don't hear you crying for the citizens of NY that were denied these dollars by the very government that you confusedly believe is handing out money to NYRA that you ignorantly compare to the Red Cross and Salvation Army.

Beyond this, you are making the usual simple minded mistake of lumping every leadership of NYRA together......as though the main people in charge today are the same as the different stewards NYRA has had in the past. This is a complete perversion of the truth. The existance of racing in NY State is of the utmost importance to the entire industry that many of us love and rely on for our livelihood. I defy you to tell me, specifically, which people you believe should be running racing in NY other than Steve Duncker and Charlie Hayward.

I need no attention at all. Again just voicing my opinion. The bottom line is that the NYRA knew the hand delt to them and they were unable to operate functionally within the framework. Blame what you want and who you want for the NYRA not being able to be self-sustaining. I agree with you that the state lost out on tax revenue from the slots (which was a bad idea). Steve Duncker and Charlie Hayward have proven to me (by example) that they are unable to run an orgainzation without the help from the state. However, I will give them a chance to prove me wrong since they have this new business model. But I will predict that you will blame the gov't when NYRA fails.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is simply far to complex for you to understand.

Why dont you explain it to me. I am sure I am quite capable of understanding.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Quite simply actually.

Instead of NYRA acting in their absolute best interests, and taking their lock land claim to court, something that could well have halted racing for years, they made an agreement that will continue the flow of dollars to the State, and the taxpayers you are oddly concerned about.

Flow of dollars to the state. Seems to be the flow of money goes from the state to the NYRA.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Why dont you explain it to me. I am sure I am quite capable of understanding.

The $120 million is not REAL money.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Flow of dollars to the state. Seems to be the flow of money goes from the state to the NYRA.

When you make these kinds of flip comments all you do is further display your complete ignorance of the situation.

I apologize for not realizing that you didn't realize that tax on pari-mutual handle from both NYRA and NY OTB ( who's conception was based on the races that NYRA pays to put on and still handles a very high portion of their daily proceeds on NYRA races ) goes to the State and equates to significant dollars annually. First I thought you were ignoring this to suit your incoherent argument but now I realize that you simply didn't understand even the fundamentals of the situation.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The $120 million is not REAL money.

I know it isnt real money--but money was given to the NYRA. That is called real money.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

When you make these kinds of flip comments all you do is further display your complete ignorance of the situation.

I apologize for not realizing that you didn't realize that tax on pari-mutual handle from both NYRA and NY OTB ( who's conception was based on the races that NYRA pays to put on and still handles a very high portion of their daily proceeds on NYRA races ) goes to the State and equates to significant dollars annually. First I thought you were ignoring this to suit your incoherent argument but now I realize that you simply didn't understand even the fundamentals of the situation.

I understand this.....so please tell me the amount collected by the state in taxing the pari-mutual handle from the NYRA only. On second thought--nevermind. You see it one way, I see it another way. Bottom line is that the NYRA will be on their knees once again in 5 years asking the state of new york for more money. If not then great and I am wrong, if so; then I am right and it is a sad day for the racing in New York.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by whodey17

I understand this.....so please tell me the amount collected by the state in taxing the pari-mutual handle from the NYRA only. On second thought--nevermind. You see it one way, I see it another way. Bottom line is that the NYRA will be on their knees once again in 5 years asking the state of new york for more money. If not then great and I am wrong, if so; then I am right and it is a sad day for the racing in New York.

why are you not opening your eyes on this..you wont be right..and your wrong now..and just for kicks what would you do .. put in a diffrent vendor/and think this would get your taxes lower.. nyra has the exp.. take alook at magnas slot operation and general retardation..you bring somebody else in to run things and its over.........

[theiman]

Originally Posted by Kasept

No it wasn't. It was a rejoinder in the same vein that the NYRA discussion involving Whodey has had all along and simply challenged his knowledge of the full content in the debate. And minutes later when I was unhappy that I had written it, I yanked it.

It's pretty rare that I throw a haymaker around here.. And if I do I invariably think better of it.

Thats fair, sometimes we regret what we post, at least we have the chance to change it.

Nobody still has addressed the other part of my post.
NYRA's Disclosure projections for 2008 called for a breakeven year on the B/L
However, as part of that projection was the gain on the sale of the parcel of land, at the Big A, for approx $15M. If NYRA no longer has a claim to the land, and it is sold for $15M who gets the $15M? If NYRA doesn't get the $$ then aren't the revised projections going to show a $15M loss for the bottom line?
If so, why are they so good to run the race track business and when will the state have to bail them out, make additional $$ donations, or will NYRA file Chapter 11 again(I am not so sure they can file chap 11 or a chap 7)


As for the poster who mentioned that Magnas Gulfstream casino operations are a failure, shouldnt you also mention that Magnas Remington Park casinos have outperformed expectations, while at the same time Remington Park cross promotes slots customers to the racetrack operations.

It seems readers of these posts would be better informed if as much of the facts are stated, not just the ones that back your side of the coin.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by theiman

whatever

Here's the good news for you, if you care about racing, be it in NY or elsewhere, against your wishes, the best possible people were chosen to continue to run racing in NY.

There's a lot wrong in racing, and certainly everything in NY isn't perfect, but you might want to consider moving on and applying your dismay to another cause that is still being fought.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

you might want to consider moving on and applying your dismay to another cause that is still being fought.

Whatever

I just hope that the racetrack I grew up with is still operating when I come back and visit NY.

By the way, I found the answer to my question regarding the sale of the parcel of land valued at approx $15M. Good Luck

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by theiman

Whatever

I just hope that the racetrack I grew up with is still operating when I come back and visit NY.

By the way, I found the answer to my question regarding the sale of the parcel of land valued at approx $15M. Good Luck

At least another 25 years.....and will STILL have the best thoroughbred racing in the country..... no matter what!

[freddymo]

NYRA is never going to run like a business. The model hasn't changed and we will invariably see continued need for capital influx from the government. Will it be because the government isn't treating NYRA fairly with slots for whatever stupid reasons,or some other complex mobo jumbo, perhaps. NYRA may loss money simply because there is zero motivation to do anything other then administer as a worthy custodian to New Yorks racing format, which is a good thing for racing but shouldn't it be done with costs in mind? Whatever the future BS and or reasons for the future losses it really is pop corn and peanuts in the whole scheme of things.

More importantly hopefully the current leaders close Aqueduct and turn Belmont into a show piece.. I doubt it but one can dream

[pgiaco]

I feel very confident with Steve Duncker and Charlie Hayward leading NYRA forward. The bin-Laden Racing Club had a better chance to get the franchise than NYRA when the process started. The State of New York did EVERYTHING in their power to get NYRA out (no approval of VLTs, phony tax claims, half baked audits by the disgraced Alan Hevesi, etc). Yet NYRA played their hand flawlessly AND presented the only coherent structure to run racing in NY. Anyone who thinks this was some back room, glad handing favor to NYRA is either naive or hasn't been paying attention.