Santa Anita not racing Saturday?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Bid

They cant keep Hollywood flat Scud. They have been complaining about the surface since it got installed.

Im sure SA and the CHRB didnt want to cancel racing dates, and they certainly dont want to admit they made a mistake. The track is under water today, and who knows what the standing water will do to further degrade the integrity of the surface. Answer......NOBODY. Nobody knows because nobody did any testing, they just installed it.

Hollywood's track is only a problem for gamblers trying to make money betting.When you have a fair racetrack it favors the best horse.That's why Sadler and Mitchell went nuts with winners at that meet.They had the "best prepared" horses.Those types of horses will get up on a fair track.Anita had that from last Friday until this last Thursday.Then,yesterday,you started to get horses breaking 1st from the gate(regardless of form) start to stick around.For instance,Flores on the grey in the last race.

[The Bid]

I did bet 100 on that horse to PLACE AND SHOW. That horse figured in that field. Flores is white hot and stayed around for the last race. The hrose had a steady tab, and there was nothing in the race at all. You knew the horse was live. Plus his previous MSW slaughtering, and troubled lined 40c warranted more money. He was also hands down the best looking horse in the post parade.

Now that Im done redboarding....They have had issues with the HP track since inception. Its uneven turning for home and they cant keep it consistant.

Oh, no win money on the horse made me want to puke, and I had a cold 9-4 100 exacta.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

Did they really? Interesting. Supposed to help keep water from freezing in the drainage system piping, to keep water from freezing in spaces within the stone base, or what? Wonder if Kee did that?

I have no idea what or why but when I was over there about 3 months ago, it was flat as a pancake, it looked sealed.....maybe a loose seal, I have no idea

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I did bet 100 on that horse to PLACE AND SHOW. That horse figured in that field. Flores is white hot and stayed around for the last race. The hrose had a steady tab, and there was nothing in the race at all. You knew the horse was live. Plus his previous MSW slaughtering, and troubled lined 40c warranted more money. He was also hands down the best looking horse in the post parade.

Now that Im done redboarding....They have had issues with the HP track since inception. Its uneven turning for home and they cant keep it consistant.

Oh, no win money on the horse made me want to puke, and I had a cold 9-4 100 exacta.

Now you make as much sense as the ultraconservative Catholics that wanted to keep a vegetable alive to be starred at like it was fine art.If you like a 35-1 shot,why do you play $100 to show on it?If you're chickenshit(like I get) then just bet a lil to win,and backwheel it in the exactas,and don't worry about the show betting.What did it pay to show? 7/2 or 4/1?

[sumitas]

I like the way Bid bet the race.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Scav

I have no idea what or why but when I was over there about 3 months ago, it was flat as a pancake, it looked sealed.....maybe a loose seal, I have no idea

Scavs,what's your attraction to HWD PARK.I live 10 minutes from it,and probably haven't been there since last January or February.I don't think it's something you should have to pay to get into.It's like paying to be able to go inside a Mc Donald's.

[Rupert Pupkin]

The situation at Santa Anita is obviously a disaster. But that is not an indictment on all synthetic surfaces. We are extremely happy with the track at Hollywood Park. There have been a few minor issues at Hollywood, but overall the track is great. It is a huge improvement over the old track and the old track was the best track in Southern California, so that should tell you something.

The vast majority of trainers out here are extremely happy with the track at Hollywood Park. From Richard Mandella to Ron Ellis to Marty Jones to Jeff Mullins, the list goes on and on. All of these guys love the track at Hollywood. I have talked with them about it.

There are a ton of horses out there that could not stay sound on the regular dirt here, but they are staying sound on the syntetic surfaces here.

Back in the 1980s, I think the dirt tracks were pretty good out here. The problem was that when it would rain, the tracks would become a mess. So they started adding sand and a buch of other things to the surface which made the track hold up much better in the rain but it made the tracks much worse over all.

The same thing happened at Turf Paradise. I was talking about this very subject this morning with a trainer that we use in Arizona and New Mexico when we ship horses there. He said that Turf Paradise was very good years ago, but it was a total mess when it rained. So they added a bunch of stuff to the track that made it hold up well when it rains, but overall it pretty much ruined the track and nowadays the track is not very good there.

Anyway, I don't know what the answer is. I think there is definitely a place for synthetic surfaces. They are certainly not the cure-all, but they are a big improvement over what he had here before. These new tracks may not be an improvement over what we had here 25 years ago, but those old tracks could not withstand rain. I personally would prefer a regular dirt track, if you could find one that was safe and that holds up when it rains but I'm not sure that such a thing exists. The worst thing for the horses in when they seal the track. When they seal the track, it becomes rock-hard and your horse has a 10x greater chance of getting hurt.

[The Bid]

Rupert

Belmont, Saratoga, CHD, etc. Those are all good dirt tracks that hold up to pleanty of rain

When synthetics were installed they were supposed to

1) Require little upkeep
2) Be all weather
3) Have Fewer breakdowns

They have done none of the above. If I ordered a new TV and it was supposed to have a crystal clear picture, record things by voice, and have great audio, and they delivered an old floor model wooden Zenith, I would be pretty pissed off. Especially if that Zenith cost 15 million. I wouldnt call my buddies to come over on Sunday for football and tell them I had an incredible TV that was perfect. Why are people still saying these tracks are better, or as good as what was in before. I dont get it

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rupert

Belmont, Saratoga, CHD, etc. Those are all good dirt tracks that hold up to pleanty of rain

When synthetics were installed they were supposed to

1) Require little upkeep
2) Be all weather
3) Have Fewer breakdowns

They have done none of the above. If I ordered a new TV and it was supposed to have a crystal clear picture, record things by voice, and have great audio, and they delivered an old floor model wooden Zenith, I would be pretty pissed off. Especially if that Zenith cost 15 million. I wouldnt call my buddies to come over on Sunday for football and tell them I had an incredible TV that was perfect. Why are people still saying these tracks are better, or as good as what was in before. I dont get it

Hollywood Park requires little upkeep, it holds up extremely well to rain, there are fewer breakdowns and the horses stay sounder. The field sizes have increased because the horses are staying sounder.

Of the 3 tracks that you mentioned, I would say that Belmont is the best. Churchill is not nearly as good as it usd to be. Saratoga was not good at all this past meet. There were a lot of injuries and alot of trainers were complaining that the track was too hard. All 3 of those tracks have to be sealed if it is going to rain and no track is safe after it sealed. I like Belmont but they seal it if there is even a hint that it might rain.

[Riot]

Five inches of rain on SA overnight. Anybody know how Hollywood looked this morning?

Updated story on SA track at DRF this afternoon.

[The Bid]

Portland Meadows handles a lot of rain and the track stays consistant. Portland handles much more rain than the all weather at Santa Anita and generally do not cancel. My argument isnt that these tracks are bad, I know they are bad. My issue is with them being sold as all weather cure alls, when infact they arent all weather. Im glad Hollywood Park is working out for your horses,but I wouldnt be so quick to give it a thumbs up Rupe. Good Luck.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Stronarch should be able to sue someone for making him install that garbage at any of his tracks. Im sure he will when they tear them all out

The funniest part about Santa Anita is they were contacted prior to installation by someone who does roads, breathable paving, etc. At that time they were told IT WOULD NOT DRAIN properly unless they did it a certain way. Of course they disregarded that well respected professionals opinion, knowing full well the supertrack could handle water. Its not just the wax, they arent telling the story, its the base. They knew before they started and never gave it a second thought. Its a disgrace.

i thought it was the fine sand that they were using, that it was clogging the drain holes....

at any rate, whoever is responsible should be fired. santa anita will be a mess all racing season.
maybe the bc should seriously rethink the decision NOW to have the bc there this year. october would be a bad time to realize there's a problem that hasn't been resolved.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I hope some of you heard the Roger Stein Show this morning here in Southern California. It was great. He had Robert Shapiro of the CHRB on there and he absolutely grilled him. He told him that they need to convene an emergency session of the board to get the racing shifted over from Santa Anita to Hollywood. One classic exchange was when Shapiro said that Santa Anita hasn't come to the board with any kind of request to move over to Hollywood and Stein said something like "they didn't come to the board with a request to have to install this stuff either but yet you made them anyway." Shapiro also said the board didn't make the decision for each individual track as to which company they had to go with when then installed the tracks to which Stein reminded him that the board didn't give them much time to do much studying first.

Stein said that all three surfaces down here suck and said that in his talking with his fellow horsemen, he hears far different than what is printed in the papers.

sorry i missed all that!!

it's a disgrace, the knee jerk reaction by the chrb to mandate a surface. a disgrace that the track and the installer didn't do the right thing, and a disgrace that they sit and fiddle while rome burns. ridiculous!

i think going to hollywood would be a great idea. do it NOW, don't waste time, don't try to salvage a season that is already ruined. shut the track, get it right right now.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sumitas

How does one track's installation problem condemn all the all weather surfaces ?

good question. hollywood has gotten nothing but praise.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Im not calling you a buffoon Im speaking to Sumitas.

You think its a normal practice to seal an all weather track?

Mig says the track is hard as a rock, and the super says its soft, make sense?

To be honest with you I dont care whats said in the DRF or any other publication. Some reporter just did a piece on Equidaily praising GG on their breakdown rate. The week before they had a bunch go down, over 10 eased and vanned. The day after they had one go down in the stretch. BTW that was 5 catastrophic breakdowns 12 eased and 7 vanned over a 6 day period. Just because its reported, doesnt mean its the truth. You are hearing what they want you to hear, not what is actually going on. How long are people going to believe these tracks are as advertised? Catastrophic breakdowns went up at Keeneland, will be up at GG, Woodbines track is a disaster, and Southern California cancelled Sat and Sun cards, and are probably going to cancel Monday. If thats not enough to make you scratch your head a little bit and question what you are hearing, then you must be making a commission on the stuff.

but you have to take a lot of things into consideration other than raw numbers...take turfway for instance. their first year with an AWT, they had great numbers regarding injury. the next year, not so much--but with more entrants, more runners, the raw # would also increase, correct? also, how many trainers thought this surface was the cure for all ills, and sent horses who needed more time, who had no business running, to that track to race as the surface is thought to be some miracle worker? i'd imagine plenty, and that may be the case for others tracks who have made the switch as well.

all the AWTS are seeing increases in starters, sad to say that would also have to lead to an increase in injuries and breakdowns.

they need to study percentages of starters to injuries, rather than just going with a total. that will tell the tale.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Portland Meadows handles a lot of rain and the track stays consistant. Portland handles much more rain than the all weather at Santa Anita and generally do not cancel. My argument isnt that these tracks are bad, I know they are bad. My issue is with them being sold as all weather cure alls, when infact they arent all weather. Im glad Hollywood Park is working out for your horses,but I wouldnt be so quick to give it a thumbs up Rupe. Good Luck.

1st Portland Meadows track surface reference in a while

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

How can you respect this guy's opinion on management of anything? He has destroyed his own health by gaining and losing thousands of pounds in one single lifetime. You sure that guy is still alive? Anybody who wants to go back to dirt doesn't give a **** about these animals.That much I know.You can try to justify it 20 different ways,but in the end ,you really don't give a **** about whether horses break down.If you did,then this subject(going back to dirt) wouldn't be on your mind.King,you're the same guy who admitted you attend dogfights.You are trash,to me,and I have stated that to you repeatedly.

untrue scuds. some in the business say that maybe changing the track, including the base, may be what has aided the horses. that it's not necessarily a surface change that has been the reason for less breakdowns, but removal of a track that has been in place for years. i happen to enjoy some tracks that have a dirt surface, and i certainly care about the well being of the horses.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

1st Portland Meadows track surface reference in a while

hell, first portland meadows reference in a while!!

go skins!! coming alive.

[Cannon Shell]

Mandates by political regulatory bodies rarely work out as they are supposed to.

Stronach's track is screwed up. Shocking.

And they are the one that is staying and not going out of business. Fairplex, the winter place to be?

Broken glass and jagged stones are a better alternative to Turfway's old surface.

Being that there was a major storm that dropped 5 inches of rain would SA not have been cancelled if the track was still dirt?

Can Scuds bring together divergent topics or what?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Mandates by political regulatory bodies rarely work out as they are supposed to.

Stronach's track is screwed up. Shocking.

And they are the one that is staying and not going out of business. Fairplex, the winter place to be?

Broken glass and jagged stones are a better alternative to Turfway's old surface.

Being that there was a major storm that dropped 5 inches of rain would SA not have been cancelled if the track was still dirt?
Can Scuds bring together divergent topics or what?

good point.