why hard spun sucks...

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Hail2Reason

I agree, but the trainer and owner brought it upon themselves with their lies about why they were running in the race. Even the clowns at ESPN were laughing at how they were saying they went in the race because it was a good prep for their eventual plan of the Breeders Cup Classic. Don't insult my intelligence. He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win. It wasn't because they thought it was a good prep.

It really doesn't matter. They'll say what they are going to say -- truth, lies, whatever, and your intelligence may or may not be insulted. That's part of this game. The connections of horses will never manage their horses based upon, up to, etc., other people's expectations, desires, wants, or whatever you want to call. Maybe it's no different than criticizing Steinbrenner for making an owner's move, or Torre for making a manager's move.

Be that as it may -- it doesn't matter because it had nothing to do with the horse and his performance. Why Hard Spun sucks -- what kind of thread it that. Anyone who looks to criticize this horse off that performance is just grasping at straws. He could have done this, or he could have went there, or whatever. All that talk could make winners out of all the losers at the track. Could have, should have, would have.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Eric, It would be refreshing -- almost novel, at this point -- for people in any endeavor who appear before media to speak truthfully about their motivations. Given its rarity these days, Jones and/or Porter would be hailed as honest guys, and people might not begrudge them for the breeding deal, because, "at least they were honest."

I'd dismiss most of the negative assessments in this thread, but I'm OK with anyone wishing for plain old honesty from owners and trainers.

I hear you, and I agree. It is a shame that one aspect of the business drives the entire sport and that in a case like this, yes, this happens. I am also a realist and after being in the horse business for my entire adult, I also realize the harsh realities about what drives the business and how that impacts the sport. People will very often have, somewhat, ulterior motives. It could be as simple as "wanting to race at the Spa" or wanting to race on a particular day.

The plain old honesty, out there, up front, completely out in the open -- I guess that will happen at Fantasy Land Downs, LOL.

Eric

[SentToStud]

How much more could you ask from the Hard Spun people? They kept this horse on the track all spring and summer and came back yesterday in a Grade 1 on three weeks. They really have nothing to explain. If Porter made more money off his win yesterday, good for him. It's not as if they give Grade 1's away. Since when does a trainer or owner owe anyone an explanation for winning a Grade 1?

[Riot]

He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win.

They made an intelligent and profitable financial decision, they made a sound management decision for the horse based upon his abilities, and the trainer prepared the horse so that he blew his competition out of the water in a great race.

What jerks!

Seems maybe the horse and the connections are treated as one.
I think the animal should be treated as the athlete and when an outstanding performance is exhibited its good for racing.

Its hard to hate the horse for me, but easy to dislike owners, or trainers of some. Heck I loved Congaree but Baffert was/is not my favorite for whatever reason.

[herkhorse]

Horses never suck, only some people

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Horses never suck, only some people

so true. some people make it extremely difficult to root for their horses. i never appreciated the bid much when he was racing, as i thought bud delp...well, you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead so i'll leave it at that.

i'd like curlin a lot more if he was with someone else. well, at least i wouldn't mind when he won so much!

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by -BT-

not sure if you were watching the ESPN coverage, but Randy Moss said some sort of inside source said that there was "extra insentive" from whom ever bought Hard Spun's breeding rights if he were to win a Grade 1 before going to the shed. So i guess this was pretty much the only logical choice for that type of race so far along in the season.


Also, did anyone see how apeshit Larry Jones went when someone knocked off his cowboy hat during the celebration with owners and friends in the grandstand. His horse finally won the elusive G1 and he looked like Lou Holtz when some kid stole the hat off his head during a post-game interview..... can't lose my favorite stetson


-bt-

His buddy that caught his hat should have made the play of the day on ESPN.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He stumbled coming out of the gate...and was drawn outside of the undefeated one-dimensional Cable Boy....who needed the lead to have any shot.

So, after the stumble, had Pino not put Hard Spun to stout restraint, he would have found himself in a bitter head-to-head speed duel.

Hard Spun got loose in the Kentucky Derby -- in a race over-flowing with speed horses -- he is fast enough to get loose in virtually all Grade 1 route races.

However, his connections have been afraid to use his only real weapon (his natural speed) since the Derby. They decided they had to use it in the King's Bishop...because Hard Spun has never had dirt kicked in his face before, and horses often struggle from the off-the-pace when expieriencing that for the first time.

At this time of the year, all these silly one-dimensional sprinter/milers like Flying First Class and Cable Boy have proven they aren't Grade 1 routers -- and the pace of these big races often start to get much slower.

thats a fair point, I do see his speed as a bigger assest as the pretenders fall by the wayside. He could have easily dominated the pace of the Travers.
I not sure he would have won it, but it would have really changed the complexion.

[sumitas]

Well, the owner is a car salesman so their reputation for lack of candor was maintained. Not to mention his outfit.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Hail2Reason

It isn't a matter of whether or not he can get 10f. Obviously he can. He just can't beat the top horses at that distance. He has tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly. Curlin has tried and won. AGS has tried and won. They don't have problems getting the distance.

Hard Spun's best distance is 8f and shorter. Look at the last 1/8th of all his route races. He tires.

Are you saying you know better than the trainer who ran him in a 7f race yesterday instead of a 10f race? The Travers is a much more prestigious race than the Kings Bishop but for some reason the trainer went 7f.

If he runs poorly in the Classic nobody will care. Everyone already knows he can't run that far. Great race for him because he can't hurt his reputation, just like Coolmore's miler last year, George Washington.

So your over/under on his BCC would be an extremely indifferent 6th?

I'll bet you on that for whatever you want, and take the "6th or better".

Originally Posted by sumitas

Well, the owner is a car salesman so their reputation for lack of candor was maintained. Not to mention his outfit.

Bang.
If Jones read this it would have to hurt.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

he should go in the BC Sprint instead of the BCC IMO

The new BC mile race plays right into Hard Spun's wheel house.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

The new BC mile race plays right into Hard Spun's wheel house.

Is it graded and how much is the purse?

[robfla]

$1 million each

UNgraded for now

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

lets look at the big picture... hard spun todays hat flopping favorite of the people .is a great horse.. he should have been battleing it out with street sence the whole time..but hes not of that class..hes been reduced to 7f.. pretty great.... yee haa larry..you gota real goodin ..

He got his G1, that is what he wanted

In all the triple crown races, or the Haskell, I did not lay one dollar on Hard Spun, as I liked others such as Street Sense, or Any Given Saturday. But...the Kings Bishop, this hard tryer had me out of my seat rooting for him coming down the lane. Especially after being headed and fighting so gamely....

Hard Spun ran a courageous race. I imagine as many heartbreaks he has had in the last couple races, having prior being passed late, it would of been easy to throw in the towel in this race. But he was dead game, after he was headed in the stretch. More than any other race, this race showed his true class. Absolute true class.

A better race than the Travers. This horse never gave up.

Don't count him out in the classic.

[slotdirt]

The one thing I think Hard Spun has shown in virtually every start of his is guts. He's definitely a game animal.

[Bobby Fischer]

on racing record - You have to judge Curlin to get a standard for where Hard Spun belongs. If you consider Curlin the 1st or 2nd best racing 3yo, that bodes well for Hard Spun to be closely ranked. Both times Hard Spun didn't have a garbage ride he beat Curlin. To be fair, you have to consider Curlin's garbage ride in the Derby where Albarado asked nothing out of the gate, and was left with a lot of work, when he could have loomed in the pocket that Sedgefield enjoyed. You also have to be realistic that even a decent ride for Hard Spun in the Preakness would have likely left him short of the top two that day.
Do you rank the Pletcher move-up AGS 3rd best or HS? Up to you. Maybe it comes down to specific distances with these two. Saturday is clearly more explosive in the last two races and possibly better than 3rd best for pure racing ability right now. We wait to see if AGS will revert back to his natural ability under a stressful 10 panels in the BC Classic.

on physicallity - Hard Spun is the best 3yo dirt animal. He made Curlin look like a donkey head-to-head in the Haskell paddock, and Curlin is a big boy himself! HS is a superior animal. This is no runt. Street Sense and Curlin are beautiful horses, but Hard Spun is a cut above.

on pedigree - His pedigree is pretty good. A little hard to compare pedigrees, but I don't know that I would rank Hard Spun necessarily top-5 of the 3yos. He could easily turn out to be. Will be interesting to see if they breed him with any classy turf producers as well.

[ELA]

I don't like to get into the debates, however, in this case I'll throw my hat in the ring. First, and don't attack me for saying this, however, I was never -- never -- a fan of Hard Spun . . . not until Saturday. For whatever, reason, I just wasn't a fan. I didn't think he'd be there in the Derby, but could be in the Preakness. Regardless, I think unlike many others, I can bifurcate "betting" from who I like, am rooting for, etc. Regardless as well, I had the exacta both ways.

After the trip he got, and doing what he did -- at a certain point, coming down the stretch on Saturday, I was rooting for this horse. Prior to this race, like I said, I was never a fan. One thing I did think was that he was the "toughest" of the 3yo's. How can you not appreciate showing up to every dance, time and time again, doing the dirty work for the most part, and accomplishing what this colt has accomplished. Are there things people can knock him on? Sure, it's always easy to be a critic (thanks to Rick Pitino for the line). I am sure some will say he should have gotten third in the Belmont. Whatever, doesn't matter. Saturday should have turned critics into fans.

Curlin -- I think Curlin had an incredible amount of talent and potential. I thought, he had the most "natural" or "raw" talent. Doing what he did -- in his third, fourth, fifth, and sixth lifetime stars? He was hanging and banging with the best colts going -- like them or not -- as an unseasoned, inexperienced colt. I just thought this horse was getting better, learning, moving forward, and getting tougher. I thought that if he kept going, we could see one hell of a horse come summer -- if and only if he didn't fall victim to "too much too soon" and I am not sure if that was/is the case. This horse had incredible talent. He was asked for a great deal, very early on. His Monmouth race was enigmatic to some extent. Sure, I would have liked to see a more "even" track and would have liked to see him "run" and put in more of a "run", but it is what it is.

Street Sense -- what do you have to say about this horse. Are some going to fault him for not winning the Preakness? I am sure they are. Will some/many fault him for not showing up to the Belmont? I think so, and personally I think that's ludicrous. Will they question the Travers? I guess so as well.

Any Given Saturday -- I liked him in the Monmouth race. I thought he could beat Curlin only because of the track, the way it plays, etc. I thought Curlin, if he (and the talent/ability) showed up could overcome it. I did not think AGS was THAT kind of horse. I think in that race, he overachieved and outran what I thought he could do all things considered. I know a lot of people, people's who have opinion I respect, horsemen, trainers, jockeys, handicappers, who share the same opinion. That performance was a bit of a surprise. Maybe he turned the corner and stepped up. I guess we will soon see.

Anway, I hope all of them come back sound, fit, healthy and we can see them all at their best.

Eric