Who owns California?

Pedigree Ann · #1 06-30-2007, 06:55 PM

It's the LAVA DUDE!

ninetoone · #2 06-30-2007, 06:56 PM

that was impressive

Linny · #3 06-30-2007, 06:56 PM

How can you not love this dude? Very game win today!

Rileyoriley · #4 06-30-2007, 06:56 PM

Great run by Lava Man. Confident ride by Corey.

somerfrost · #5 06-30-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

Great run by Lava Man. Confident ride by Corey.

So strange...he wins today giving a relaxed front runner 9 pounds, when they went 1:13 and change, you knew AP Xcellent would be a factor. He wins on the turf, on the dirt and now on the artificial surface...it sure is strange that he does so poorly outside California. Before today, you could credit it to the hard Cal dirt surfaces but that's out the window...it almost has to be the shipping itself...this guy must be a homebody! Great run and congrats on tying the great Native Diver's record!

ArlJim78 · #6 06-30-2007, 07:18 PM

its great and exciting and everything, but the fields are just not that good.
AP Xcellent got beat by a claimer (Sun Boat) in the gR11 Californian.

Now he gives the immortal Lava Man everything he can handle in a GR1 race?
While another claimer (Big Booster) makes a bold stretch move and finishes within a length of the top pair.

Sightseek · #7 06-30-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

its great and exciting and everything, but the fields are just not that good.
AP Xcellent got beat by a claimer (Sun Boat) in the gR11 Californian.

Now he gives the immortal Lava Man everything he can handle in a GR1 race?
While another claimer (Big Booster) makes a bold stretch move and finishes within a length of the top pair.

Mitchell sure can make them run.

somerfrost · #8 06-30-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

its great and exciting and everything, but the fields are just not that good.
AP Xcellent got beat by a claimer (Sun Boat) in the gR11 Californian.

Now he gives the immortal Lava Man everything he can handle in a GR1 race?
While another claimer (Big Booster) makes a bold stretch move and finishes within a length of the top pair.

You know better than that, there were at least two quality horses (beside Lava Man) in the race....this was pure guts, giving 9 pounds and the horse had an easy lead off 1:13+ fraction...of course he's gonna be tough in the stretch. I sure didn't see anything impressive in the Suburban today!

Lava · #9 06-30-2007, 07:27 PM

Lava ran a great Race

Sightseek · #10 06-30-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

You know better than that, there were at least two quality horses (beside Lava Man) in the race....this was pure guts, giving 9 pounds and the horse had an easy lead off 1:13+ fraction...of course he's gonna be tough in the stretch. I sure didn't see anything impressive in the Suburban today!

But at least the Suburban brought us this gem of a quote from Kent D.;

"He didn't just slow down, his head came up in the air and said 'Not today. I'm just not up to it,' " Desormeaux said. "I banged on him a couple of times, but it was like spanking on dead wood."

ArlJim78 · #11 06-30-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

You know better than that, there were at least two quality horses (beside Lava Man) in the race....this was pure guts, giving 9 pounds and the horse had an easy lead off 1:13+ fraction...of course he's gonna be tough in the stretch. I sure didn't see anything impressive in the Suburban today!

totally disagree, very soft pace set up things well for Lava Man, and gave APX a shot. Any type of honest pace and its another story.

not saying Lava man doesn't have guts, he does. but I sorta look at it like he is the best of a so-so bunch out there.

who were the quality horses in that field?

as bad as the Suburban field was I think it had better quality. no claimers. with a wimpy pace like that fairbanks would have wired that field. 2:00.5 final time in the Suburban versus 2:03 and change in the Gold cup. hmmm.

and people are always totally stumped why Lava Man doesn't win when he travels. it's not that complicated.

gamblin4ever · #12 07-01-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

its great and exciting and everything, but the fields are just not that good.
AP Xcellent got beat by a claimer (Sun Boat) in the gR11 Californian.

Now he gives the immortal Lava Man everything he can handle in a GR1 race?
While another claimer (Big Booster) makes a bold stretch move and finishes within a length of the top pair.

remember Lava Man was claimed for 50K.

ArlJim78 · #13 07-01-2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

remember Lava Man was claimed for 50K.

but he isn't considered a 50K claimer anymore now is he?
Isn't he the winner of like 6 or more GR1's?
Should $50K claimers routinely be able to step up and run competitively in these GR1's in Ca. They do and I have no problem with it. Also I enjoy Lava Mans will to win.

Port Conway Lane · #14 07-01-2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

its great and exciting and everything, but the fields are just not that good.
AP Xcellent got beat by a claimer (Sun Boat) in the gR11 Californian.

Now he gives the immortal Lava Man everything he can handle in a GR1 race?
While another claimer (Big Booster) makes a bold stretch move and finishes within a length of the top pair.

Lava Man is a claimer. AP Arrow was up the track after four third place finishes behind Premium Tap,Invasor,Corinthian and Papi Chullo and a win over Political Force. Big Booster may have found his surface and deserves some credit after closing into slow fractions his last two races.

I'm not contending that this field was good but if you point out that the claimers in the race or the contenders that were beaten by claimers made it a poor field then what does that say about the horses that AP Arrow has been running against? Granted he shipped cross country and ran on an unfamiliar surface.

Any of these horses including every horse in the Suburban could be claimers in their poorest form cycle. Who knows, maybe Big Booster is the best claim since Lava Man. Time will tell.

ArlJim78 · #15 07-01-2007, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Lava Man is a claimer. AP Arrow was up the track after four third place finishes behind Premium Tap,Invasor,Corinthian and Papi Chullo and a win over Political Force. Big Booster may have found his surface and deserves some credit after closing into slow fractions his last two races.
I'm not contending that this field was good but if you point out that the claimers in the race or the contenders that were beaten by claimers made it a poor field then what does that say about the horses that AP Arrow has been running against? Granted he shipped cross country and ran on an unfamiliar surface.

Any of these horses including every horse in the Suburban could be claimers in their poorest form cycle. Who knows, maybe Big Booster is the best claim since Lava Man. Time will tell.

Deserves some credit? I'll say. He ran the most impressive race of anyone in the field. Coming from where he did on that slow pace was very good.

miraja2 · #16 07-01-2007, 07:16 AM

People seem to get caught up in arguing about whether all of Lava Man's impressive accomplishments are the result of him being a good horse, or if it is the result of his fairly easy competition.
I believe the answer is.........both.
Lava Man's accomplishments are incredible. Winning the Big Cap and the Gold Cup in the same year is impressive. He has now done that two years in a row.
Last year he won G1s on the turf and dirt. You don't see that very often.
etc. etc.
Based solely on his number of G1 wins, he looks like the horse of the decade. But because of the competition he has faced, and his complete failures when he leaves SoCal, he is certainly not that.
Now, has he faced spectacular competition in those SoCal races? Not at all. But it takes a pretty good horse to show up time after time even to beat the Borregos, Super Frolics, Brother Dereks, and A.P. Xcellents of the sport. Is beating any of those horses very impressive? No. But showing up to beat horses of that caliber consistently over a three-year span IS fairly impressive. In other words, he certainly was handed a great opportunity to rack up some big-time accomplishments, but it takes a pretty good horse to seize that opportunity.
He is not the best horse in the world. He isn't even close. But it hasn't just been Cali with a lack of good horses in the handicap division the last few years. After Lava Man beat Borrego in the 2005 HGC, Borrego went east in the fall and won the JCGC. Look at the last two years. Who did Bernardini beat in the JCGC last year? Who just won the Suburban? etc. etc.

Rileyoriley · #17 06-30-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

So strange...he wins today giving a relaxed front runner 9 pounds, when they went 1:13 and change, you knew AP Xcellent would be a factor. He wins on the turf, on the dirt and now on the artificial surface...it sure is strange that he does so poorly outside California. Before today, you could credit it to the hard Cal dirt surfaces but that's out the window...it almost has to be the shipping itself...this guy must be a homebody! Great run and congrats on tying the great Native Diver's record!

He doesn't like "sleepovers"!

2Hot4TV · #18 06-30-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

So strange...he wins today giving a relaxed front runner 9 pounds, when they went 1:13 and change, you knew AP Xcellent would be a factor. He wins on the turf, on the dirt and now on the artificial surface...it sure is strange that he does so poorly outside California. Before today, you could credit it to the hard Cal dirt surfaces but that's out the window...it almost has to be the shipping itself...this guy must be a homebody! Great run and congrats on tying the great Native Diver's record!

Lava Man is a stall racer when he ships. He just can't relax and leave his race at home, California.