Any Given Saturday

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by pgardn

88 Beyer and he was never even shown the whip. Hand ridden... he was trotting at the end. Pretty much the kind of effort I would want for an early prep against a weak field.

Trotting at the end?!! I was at the finish line, dude...He had all he could handle from a local yokel that's not even on the DT...If you need the chart, here:

http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesI...TAM0217100.pdf

I'm not sh1tin' on the horse, it's just that @ 1-5 and being ranked in the top 10 of derby contenders, he should have shown a hell of a lot more...if he has any heart that is...

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

My favorite kind of poster....somebody who alters other's comments and then twists their response to suit their own desperate needs.

Here is what YOU said...

" He ran the race up front, unlike his other races, and finished going away easily "

I somehow don't think pointing out that he was closer in his previous effort, especially as that was far and away his best effort, was particularly unreasonable.

Once again, however, I gave my opinion of his performance today. Just because you have some need to attack me doesn't mean I need to further my comments to suit your needs. If you don't like my opinions feel free to put me on ignore. I happen to find it curious that in spite of the fact that others said similar things to me it was me that you chose to call out.

Okay I attacked you viciously like a pit bull. I apologize.

I dont think this horse has the kind of early speed to run up front, therefore I will again say I think his effort at Keeneland would be more the type of race he would run against solid derby contenders, but not necessarily that wide.

Now, what would have impressed you in an early prep race at Tampa against a weak field with the idea that you might want the horse to run in a big race in May? Just curious.

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Trotting at the end?!! I was at the finish line, dude...He had all he could handle from a local yokel that's not even on the DT...If you need the chart, here:

http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesI...TAM0217100.pdf

I'm not sh1tin' on the horse, it's just that @ 1-5 and being ranked in the top 10 of derby contenders, he should have shown a hell of a lot more...if he has any heart that is...

YOu were there. So you had a better view. Watch the race replays, dude. You can view them more than once. The race was over way before the finish line... are you serious? Heart? WTF? You want him to set a track record in an early derby prep.in Tampa. These horses have enough trouble making it to the Derby and you want a blow out in an early prep race? I dont need a chart I watched the race, and I just watched it again. The race was over... Heart? How in God's name from that race can you state this horse has no heart?

[Gander]

File this under who cares, get the form out for tomorrow and give some opinions. Nobody cares about Any Given Saturday. It was a terrible movie to boot, Al Pacino's worst performance by far. Pgard, sometimes I think you just like to argue. Must be the physics teacher in you.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I strongly disagree with the poster who thought AGS's KEE race 2nd time out was his best race. His stakes debut was a far better performance.

The last high profile 3yo prospect, to finish his 2yo season in the Kentucky Jockey Club and make his 3yo debut in the Sam Davis was The Cliff's Edge.

He was beaten as the 1/2 favorite in the betting. Two races later, he rallied to win the Blue Grass Stakes with a 111 Beyer, beating eventual Ky Derby 2nd and 4th place finishers Lion Heart and Limehouse. TCE ended up being the morning line favorite for the Derby. However, he was cold on the board, ran 5th, lost his shoes, and I think might have come out of the race with an injury.

I'm not discouraged with AGS's effort today, and still consider him a legit Derby horse. However, I'm also a tad happier I passed up making a future bet on him at the anemic 14/1 odds he closed at last week.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by pgardn

YOu were there. So you had a better view. Watch the race replays, dude. You can view them more than once. The race was over way before the finish line... are you serious? Heart? WTF? You want him to set a track record in an early derby prep.in Tampa. These horses have enough trouble making it to the Derby and you want a blow out in an early prep race? I dont need a chart I watched the race, and I just watched it again. The race was over... Heart? How in God's name from that race can you state this horse has no heart?

He has no heart because he barely beat a pool of marginal NW1x'ers; most of which had no business in this race..That's why. If you want to see what a champion performs like, watch Bluegrass Cat in last year's SFD...

Originally Posted by Gander

File this under who cares, get the form out for tomorrow and give some opinions. Nobody cares about Any Given Saturday. It was a terrible movie to boot, Al Pacino's worst performance by far. Pgard, sometimes I think you just like to argue. Must be the physics teacher in you.

As I have state numerous times before I like to find out how people view races. So I challenge statements. Thats why I liked Oracles temper Tim. But I understand there is a line of civility.

Bottom line Tim is I dont think the race shows much of anything. It was a good workout at best.

BTW, I hardly ever argue with kids. They are too much fun to joke around with. But I love a good sports "discussion".

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Now, what would have impressed you in an early prep race at Tampa against a weak field with the idea that you might want the horse to run in a big race in May? Just curious.

To be honest I don't really think that way, but I suppose a more authoritative victory against today's hopelessly overmatched and weak field would have been more meaningful. However, it's 2 1/2 months until the Derby, and surely one thing Pletcher seems to be learning is that blowout early wins by 3YOs don't necessarily aid their development. I guess with the few legitimate Derby contenders he has he will at least try to be patient.

If I actually cared about the Derby at this time, which I honestly don't, he would probably still be in the top ten or so likely contenders. But I certainly wouldn't move him up based on his performance today. Maybe it was just what he needed. Maybe it will set him up perfectly for the future. However, none of that elevates his specific performance today. It simply was nothing to get worked up about. If he wasn't on anybody's Top Ten Derby List, or trained by Todd Pletcher, he would have barely raised a whisper with today's effort.

Let me just go on record...

Any Given Saturday is teh suck.


That is all.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If he wasn't on anybody's Top Ten Derby List, or trained by Todd Pletcher, he would have barely raised a whisper with today's effort.

This I can agree with. Especially this far out from the Derby. But I thought this was sort of the fun of it all... Watching the 3 yos change form and develop.

[Gander]

Thats why I liked Oracles temper Tim

Its an acquired taste, thats for sure. Just hassling you Pgard. I care very little about the Derby until the week of.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This I can agree with. Especially this far out from the Derby. But I thought this was sort of the fun of it all... Watching the 3 yos change form and develop.

I guess it is if you are following horses up to the Derby. Personally I am far too preoccupied with the daily minutia at Aqueduct and Gulfstream to worry about a race a week from now....not to mention one months away.

It will certainly be interesting to see a horse from Todd Pletcher incrimentally improve from race to race, and not just explode on the scene and disappear just as quickly, but until it happens I will remain dubious. Of course, the Pletcherization of racing has almost completely irradicated this aspect of the game. It's win and win now baby!

Originally Posted by Gander

Thats why I liked Oracles temper Tim

Its an acquired taste, thats for sure.

It was so easy to provoke the guy and he would give some very interesting opinions. You went to school with him so I guess that might get tiresome. I enjoy the site when active discussion takes place, even over trivial stuff. I dont have a really nice track like you do, so this is the place I can get some feedback.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I believe the Pletcher factor has hurt his odds a little in the futures.

This horse had run the best losing performance by any 2yo last year, when he was 2nd in his season finale, only Nobiz Like Shobiz's loss in the Champagne can really even be compared with it from that standpoint.

With a different trainer, I highly doubt this horse would have closed as low as the 14/1 he did last week---before even having a single 3yo run under him.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

This horse had run the best losing performance by any 2yo last year, when he was 2nd in his season finale, only Nobiz Like Shobiz's loss in the Champagne can really even be compared with it from that standpoint.

That was the day they also ran the filly 2 year old stake (whatever the name) and every single one of those 2 year old fillies, except the winner, HIT A BRICK WALL when they entered the stretch. I mean, most of them were going a mile for the first time (and hardly any figured to be able to get a mile) BUT I've never seen such stopping (in unison) before.

And then there was NoBIZ, running along on the inside like a good boy until he hit the stretch and started acting like one of those fillies. Spanked by SCAT DADDY, no less.

And now I can put it all together. He didn't run like a sprinter filly trying to get a mile; he ran one of the 2 best losing performances of the year.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

And then there was NoBIZ, running along on the inside like a good boy until he hit the stretch and started acting like one of those fillies. Spanked by SCAT DADDY, no less.

And now I can put it all together. He didn't run like a sprinter filly trying to get a mile; he ran one of the 2 best losing performances of the year.

He had significant early trouble in that race.

Do you really believe he can't get a mile?

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He had significant early trouble in that race.

Do you really believe he can't get a mile?

I haven't seen the race in a quite a while. I do recall that he got slammed into (another horse?) out of the gate. I also remember that he had an uneventful inside trip (in my mind) after that point.

Not a question of whether he can get a mile or not. I'm just trying to figure out why he basically collapsed mid to late stretch. And I definitely didn't think that Scat Daddy was much of a horse going into the Champagne.

He was trying to get in while struggling to change in the stretch last out, against a field he dominated. But, once he changed late, he was still trying to get in.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pgardn

88 Beyer and he was never even shown the whip. Hand ridden... he was trotting at the end. Pretty much the kind of effort I would want for an early prep against a weak field.

PG,

What I would not like if I was a fan of 'Saturday' was his considerably shortened stride in the stretch.. I may have seen something that isn't there, but to me he did not look good finishing up. And I don't mean under the wire.. I mean when clear midstretch when he should have been at his absolute best. He was not reaching out a lick. That said, Tampa has a very strange surface that doesn't seem to flatter horses visually. I'll have to watch it again.

Originally Posted by Kasept

PG,

What I would not like if I was a fan of 'Saturday' was his considerably shortened stride in the stretch.. I may have seen something that isn't there, but to me he did not look good finishing up. And I don't mean under the wire.. I mean when clear midstretch when he should have been at his absolute best. He was not reaching out a lick. That said, Tampa has a very strange surface that doesn't seem to flatter horses visually. I'll have to watch it again.

You may be right. He was being hand ridden in a stern manner, just looked like he knew where the finish line was to me. Maybe JV legs and body told him it over, that is difficult to see. And I really think this horse will have to come from mid pack with the real derby contenders. He does not have the early speed to run up front imo.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Kasept

PG,

What I would not like if I was a fan of 'Saturday' was his considerably shortened stride in the stretch.. I may have seen something that isn't there, but to me he did not look good finishing up. And I don't mean under the wire.. I mean when clear midstretch when he should have been at his absolute best. He was not reaching out a lick. That said, Tampa has a very strange surface that doesn't seem to flatter horses visually. I'll have to watch it again.

That is exactly my summary of the performance, he did not look good today to me in the context of looking for live derby prospects. The stride was short. I did not see a horse with a lot of energy in reserve down the lane. My opinion is that there wasn't a whole lot more there.