dear bernardini fans....

[letswastemoney]

3 year old grade Is shouldn't count as highly as older horse GIs

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Well,when people were telling others that hoped they played against the horse(so they could make even more,)I thought it was unjustified.Anytime you change tracks,and /or a horse's level of competition,that horse can fail.We also were seeing an increase in field size that could get some horses out of their comfort zone.There are just a lot of things that make the chances of failure more likely,and if they exist on raceday,then your chances of getting beat go up.

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

3 year old grade Is shouldn't count as highly as older horse GIs

Why not......

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by avance2000

.....take it. that is all i can say. take it. you owe us that. us rational people had to listen to your bs for a long time. "he was as good as secretariat. he was way better than barbaro. well guess what......he was not.
i fully expect people to attack me for "ripping" bernardini after that race and his defenders may blast me for this post. i'm fine with that, in part because - as my signature this last week probably reveals - i had a nice day at the windows today. but the bottom line is that we had to listen to your irrational and unjustified comments about this horse for months. now sit back and let us rational people take the stage for awhile. you were flat-wrong. when your boy met a quality animal he folded up like a cheap suit.
he is no invasor. he is no barbaro. secretariat? it isn't even worth discussing.
the best horse won today. there is no question about that....and i'm not just saying it after the fact.....i have been saying it on this board for awhile.

I think Bernardini ran well in defeat, it's not like he was disgraced, he was beat by a VERY nice horse. I don't see how you can say his loss today proves he is inferior to Barbaro. I think rather than come back and spout I told you so's, lets just reflect on a day when we saw some fantastic races and some unspeakable trajedy. These horses put their lifes on the line for our pleasure, rather than denigrate their races, lets celebrate their heart and desire and be happy we got to enjoy their fantastic races this year.

[ninetoone]

As long as there are sports "fans"....(short for fanatics, by the way)...people will prematurely anoint their favorites as the greatest ever, blah blah blah....chill out & take it with a grain of salt if you disagree.

Is it really necessary to go on and on about how these people were so ridiculously wrong & how "I told you so".....jeez, gimme a freakin' break...

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

OK, so people overrated him...that's obvious, but this silly and incorrect thread/post is just as inaccurate. First of all, Barbaro did not PROVE on the racetrack that he was a superior horse. Second of all, losing to Invasor is hardly a disgrace as that horse has proven himself this year to be a fine animal. Thirdly, anyone that can analyze a race, and believe me Invasor meant a decent amount of money to me, knows that Bernardini hardly benefited from the most well timed ride. Clearly Castellano panicked when he wasn't doing his best running on the backstretch and forced him into a premature move, which is Castellano's achilles heel, and Bernardini hardly embarrased himself from there. What we saw today were two horses running very well and putting on an exciting show...the kind we see all too infrequently.

Yes, the " he could have run much faster " comments were off base. Hopefully people will learn a lot from Bernardini's performances today and prior to today and next time they see a horse winning easily they will realize that does not necessarily translate into a much faster performance when the horse is challenged, especially if such horse is running as fast as Bernardini was in those easy wins. However, none of that diminishes Bernardini's immense talent. Ya know, actually not being as good as Secretariat is hardly a knock.

The unfortunate thing will be if we don't get to see Bernardini run next year, when he has had more time to mature, as perhaps then he could live up to at least some people's lofty expectations.

Great post! I'm also glad you said the same thing I thought, Castellano moved too early, Bernardini still almost overcame that and I agree he will benefit ( hopefully) from the experience next year.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Why not......

Well when factoring horse of the year....you know beating up on 3 year olds is not as good as beating older horses. Not only did Invasor beat older horses more often, he beat Bernardini which renders any chance Dini had of it being classified as a better year gone. I just think BCC along with some G1s defeats Preakness with some 3 year old G1s and a short horse field JCGC.

lol I typed in Kentucky Derby by accident

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by avance2000

i agree 100% with these points, especially the point about secretariat. in fact that is my point. why couldn't they just say....bernardini is a good horse. why did the have to start comparing him to the best ever?
i am not not saying bernardini disgraced himself today. he is a good horse. nobody could deny that. i am saying that the people who have been drooling over the horse ever sense the preakness have disgraced themselves. we had to listen about how great he was for so long.....that they need to hear about how wrong they were. they probably already know it now......but they need to hear it over and over and over.......just like we did.

I have news for you, since the beginning of time the whole premise of horseracing was the opinion that ones horse was faster than another, and as someone who actually was a fan during the Scretariat, Seattle Slew and Affirmed eras there were fans like you, saying that people were crazy to be excited about a Bold Ruler running a distance, a crooked legged cheap horse winning the Crown etc... It's simple human nature to knock success, we don't know what the future holds for Bernardini, who's to say if he races next year that he doesn't fullfill the expectations of many, at the comparable stages of their careers Bernardini has been far more impressive than say Forego, who I would think no one could argue with his greatness, no?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Dont see how you can say this. When you run against this many fast horses sh it happens and he did not handle it. Castellano was used to easy rides on this animal and he did not get his way. Thats what happens when you run in big fields with fast animals. He still ran a good race but this was not unexpected to those who realize this horse had not even been close to being tested. I wish we could see him again because he could be a super horse to watch. Huge upside. Both rider and horse learned a whole bunch.

What I really find funny is the lock business. For a 3 year old running against this big a field and older horses. He did quite well imo.

I agree with you 100%. He had been getting dream trips in small fields with no pace. He looked spectacular in those races but we all knew that today would be a totally different ballgame. Today he had speed to his inside and outside and there figured to be fast pace. He was my pick to win today, but I was not willing to bet on him because I knew that the conditions today were so much tougher. I didn't think he was anything close to a cinch today. I would have probably bet him at 5-2 but not at 6-5.

[Danzig]

a learning experience for some i'm sure....those who thought bern would run faster when pressed learned that a horse alone on the lead is pretty much doing his thing--and won't really have much more when he's in company. bernie ran his usual race, the fact is the other horses were head and shoulders above those he faced in his other races.
also, those who busted on lava man and shipping--well, you were right. but of course bernie didn't win shipping to churchill either....
so, next time a horse wins by daylight, please don't assume he'll always do that, or that a horse can somehow run several seconds faster just because he is pressed....

and today is EXACTLY WHY i said don't rush to judgement. now FIN is at the bottom of the screen, and bernie is in the same spot flower alley was in last year. so, those of you who think bern would IMPROVE SO MUCH next year....well, again, let me mention flower alley.

congrats to invasor ( he isthe best. also, congrats to bernie for running a heck of a race, and having a hell of a season. and to premium tap for showing he DID belong. great race, good end to an almost perfect day.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by avance2000

.....take it. that is all i can say. take it. you owe us that. us rational people had to listen to your bs for a long time. "he was as good as secretariat. he was way better than barbaro. well guess what......he was not.
i fully expect people to attack me for "ripping" bernardini after that race and his defenders may blast me for this post. i'm fine with that, in part because - as my signature this last week probably reveals - i had a nice day at the windows today. but the bottom line is that we had to listen to your irrational and unjustified comments about this horse for months. now sit back and let us rational people take the stage for awhile. you were flat-wrong. when your boy met a quality animal he folded up like a cheap suit.
he is no invasor. he is no barbaro. secretariat? it isn't even worth discussing.
the best horse won today. there is no question about that....and i'm not just saying it after the fact.....i have been saying it on this board for awhile.

You're a clown. I was ready to come on here and give you respect for picking Invasor, but you've proven with this post what an absolute joke you are.

He wasn't better than Barbaro? Really? So we're assuming based on a FL Derby and KY Derby win that Barbaro would've beaten Invasor in the BC Classic. Right.

He's not Secretariat and I never said he was. He's better than Barbaro. Period. Barbaro, even though by tragic circumstance, never made it past the Preakness. This horse did. He's years ahead of Barbaro in terms of accomplishments.

He folded like a cheap suit? Okay.. Right. He ****ing ran second by a length you chump. Coming on here acting like he ran up the track like that Lava Man fraud so many touted as "tough as a bulldog", blah blah ****ing blah.

I was going to give you respect, but you obviously aren't capable of the same.

Enjoy homie.. By the way, did Mauralakana cross the finish line yet?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You're a clown. I was ready to come on here and give you respect for picking Invasor, but you've proven with this post what an absolute joke you are.

He wasn't better than Barbaro? Really? So we're assuming based on a FL Derby and KY Derby win that Barbaro would've beaten Invasor in the BC Classic. Right.

He's not Secretariat and I never said he was. He's better than Barbaro. Period. Barbaro, even though by tragic circumstance, never made it past the Preakness. This horse did. He's years ahead of Barbaro in terms of accomplishments.

He folded like a cheap suit? Okay.. Right. He ****ing ran second by a length you chump. Coming on here acting like he ran up the track like that Lava Man fraud so many touted as "tough as a bulldog", blah blah ****ing blah.

I was going to give you respect, but you obviously aren't capable of the same.

Enjoy homie.. By the way, did Mauralakana cross the finish line yet?

This from a moderator? Come on man. Surely you are better than this.

Bernardini was shoved down all of our throats for months. He is a fine racehorse and one defeat certainly won't dull a a great year. But come on...as good as Secretariat?

Bernardini proved he was good but also that he was overrated. Then again, anything short of a multi length win would have proven that he was overrated considering the hype.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This from a moderator? Come on man. Surely you are better than this.

Bernardini was shoved down all of our throats for months. He is a fine racehorse and one defeat certainly won't dull a a great year. But come on...as good as Secretariat?

Bernardini proved he was good but also that he was overrated. Then again, anything short of a multi length win would have proven that he was overrated considering the hype.

Good response. You're right, I should show more restraint. But the constant baiting of Bernardini fans like myself from this guy really drives me nuts.

And like I said, I never mentioned him in the same breath as Secretariat, and think the only ones who did were novices on television trying to draw more attention to the Breeders' Cup.

I still believe he's the best horse in the world, but take nothing away from Invasor, who's a truly great horse in his own right.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Good response. You're right, I should show more restraint. But the constant baiting of Bernardini fans like myself from this guy really drives me nuts.

And like I said, I never mentioned him in the same breath as Secretariat, and think the only ones who did were novices on television trying to draw more attention to the Breeders' Cup.

I still believe he's the best horse in the world, but take nothing away from Invasor, who's a truly great horse in his own right.

In all fairness, i think even the most ardent anti-bernardinians out there would agree that it looked like another effortless route when Bernardini made the turn for home. Perhaps Javy moved a little soon.

The things that we expect from racehorses these days. In my humble opinion, neither Invasor nor Bernardini have proven to be great racehorses...YET. Bernardini is racing in the withers not 6 months ago and going off at 12-1 just 3 races back! Invasor had similar odds in the Pim Special. Now off of one result, one is proven "great" and the other "overrated". Welcome to racing circa 2006.

Let me amend the "greatness" thing for Bernardini by saying he indeed was a great three year old. Beats elders in the JCGC and virtually every other three year contender with impunity. But figwise? Never had a fig race as sensational as Tiznow or Candy Ride or MDO. As an older horse i think he would be the best we have seen since at least cigar. Heres to hoping they let us see him one more year.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

In all fairness, i think even the most ardent anti-bernardinians out there would agree that it looked like another effortless route when Bernardini made the turn for home. Perhaps Javy moved a little soon.

The things that we expect from racehorses these days. In my humble opinion, neither Invasor nor Bernardini have proven to be great racehorses...YET. Bernardini is racing in the withers not 6 months ago and going off at 12-1 just 3 races back! Invasor had similar odds in the Pim Special. Now off of one result, one is proven "great" and the other "overrated". Welcome to racing circa 2006.

Let me amend the "greatness" thing for Bernardini by saying he indeed was a great three year old. Beats elders in the JCGC and virtually every other three year contender with impunity. But figwise? Never had a fig race as sensational as Tiznow or Candy Ride or MDO. As an older horse i think he would be the best we have seen since at least cigar. Heres to hoping they let us see him one more year.

I'll take issue only with the assertation that he never had a figure as sensational as Tiznow.

He actually had very similar form going into the BCC as Tiznow.. Bernie's last four BSFs going into the Classic were 117, 116, 114 and 113 while Tiz' were 119, 114, 115 and 107. Not all that far off.

I'm absolutely with you that I hope we see him one more year, especially considering Saturday's close-but-no-cigar (amazingly, no pun intended) result..

[Cajungator26]

I'm more impressed with Bernardini than I was all year based upon that second place finish...

What I DIDN'T like was the lack of heart shown by him when he was looked in the eye. I think Bernie has more natural talent BAR NONE than any horse that was in that field, but does he have the heart? I'm not convinced...

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You're a clown. I was ready to come on here and give you respect for picking Invasor, but you've proven with this post what an absolute joke you are.

He wasn't better than Barbaro? Really? So we're assuming based on a FL Derby and KY Derby win that Barbaro would've beaten Invasor in the BC Classic. Right.

He's not Secretariat and I never said he was. He's better than Barbaro. Period. Barbaro, even though by tragic circumstance, never made it past the Preakness. This horse did. He's years ahead of Barbaro in terms of accomplishments.

He folded like a cheap suit? Okay.. Right. He ****ing ran second by a length you chump. Coming on here acting like he ran up the track like that Lava Man fraud so many touted as "tough as a bulldog", blah blah ****ing blah.

I was going to give you respect, but you obviously aren't capable of the same.

Enjoy homie.. By the way, did Mauralakana cross the finish line yet?

1) sorry you feel that way.
2) i don't understand the maurlakana thing.
3) was my post a bit extreme? yes. normally i would never criticize a horse for running second in the bcc. it is certainly quite an accomplishment. let me say it again.......bernardini is a good horse. the reason i felt so strongly about it......and the reason for such an extreme post on my part......was because i felt it was called for because of the piles of idiotically stupid junk we have been reading on here for months about this horse. they made it seem like he couldn't possibly finish second.
4) i have respect for you, regardless of what you may think of me. you were certainly in the bern camp, but you were not one of the more extreme ones. if you feel that calling me names such as "clown" is the best way to go.....fine.

[The Bid]

Good horses lose races, he lost a race to a very very nice horse. A horse whos only lost one race, and that race being to the best horse running on the planet. He lost to an older horse, he lost to a proven horse, he lost to a fresh horse? He didnt pack it in, he didnt get over that track well, he wasnt the same horse that ran previous weeks. Hes probably at the end of his rope and he still dug in and gave a champions effort. Bernardini fans have nothing to be ashamed of, nor does the horse, or his connections. He tried and just got beat by a fresher horse.

[miraja2]

AVance,

I am a fellow Bern-doubter (although I went with David Junior ) I completely agree with the SENTIMENT of your post. The Bernardini-hype around here was pretty bad. People like me (and especially you) were almost completely drowned out by the praise this horse received.
That being said, you probably would have been better served by not retaliating with an angry rant. Those that said he could not lose, I assume they already know they were wrong at this point. Why not let it go and let them congratulate you on being so right about Invasor? Fighting "idiotically stupid junk" with class is always better than fighting it with an angry "I-told-you-so" rant.
By the way, congrats on picking the winner in a very tough race.

[Five Star Derek]

I have to be honest, I was rooting against him after I found out they were planning to retire him after the BC. As sports fans we're always looking for the next great one. He's simply not one of the greats. It was a fine performance and he's one of the greats this year but not an all-timer. That was proven yesterday.