Tampa Bay Downs

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Yes - if they did that with a 28% takeout - they might rack up an extra $78 in handle over the course of a card.

I'd never dispute the importance of takeout and the effects of lowering it have been huge for Tampa. The post times are also very important. That's why they'll occasionally get as much as 15 minutes away from their scheduled post times later on in a given card.

[Calzone Lord]

I doubt that really matters much to be honest. I love the tracks who are so desperate they make it 0 MTP and will load five minutes later.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I doubt that really matters much to be honest. I love the tracks who are so desperate they make it 0 MTP and will load five minutes later.

Louisiana Downs had a sizable increase in handle mid-meet last year when more attention was paid to post times. There are a lot of bettors out there whose only criteria for betting is which race is next.

During their meet Tampa stays a good amount of time away from GP and Aqu and their races are almost always isolated in terms of competition. The fact that they are an early signal helps a lot because the east coast simulcast players who start their day with Aqueduct have Tampa just a few minutes before and immediately start looking at their races. They often end up staying with them the rest of the day.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Louisiana Downs had a sizable increase in handle mid-meet last year when more attention was paid to post times. There are a lot of bettors out there whose only criteria for betting is which race is next.

I don't know.

These type of degenerates are typically very small bettors...and there are some places that even they won't play.

It's pretty sick to think tracks would put effort into playing games with post times for them... when they're not doing things that would be much more to their benefit - and MUCH more to the benefit of the sport overall.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I doubt that really matters much to be honest. I love the tracks who are so desperate they make it 0 MTP and will load five minutes later.

Post times are a significant factor.

I manage our post times race-by-race at Louisiana Downs. Amtote gave me a computer that shows all the tracks running and their current MTP/Race/Handle information. After our race, I look at the line-up and call a time into the tote room.

I generally try and stay close to the published times (which were planned-out ahead of time to avoid the big tracks), but things happen, and adjustments are always necessary.

Yesterday, for example, was a tricky day. It was 108-degrees at LAD, and we had 5 minute post parades. Because of the heat, I didn't want to have 30 minutes between races with so many folks working outside (gate crew, outriders etc.). So I accelerated our races. This put us in a good spot early in the day, and then again towards the end.

Here is the handle on the last three races...



The post times were...

Race 7 - 4:12pm (12 minutes after Saratoga R8) - Excellent time
Race 8 - 4:36pm (3 minutes after Saratoga R9) - Horrendous time
Race 9 - 5:04pm (4 minutes before Saratoga R10, 1 minute before Del Mar R3) - Better than race 8 (always better to be ahead of everyone) but still too close to Sar/Dmr

12 minutes is the perfect amount of time after a big track. The race is usually over and priced-out with a few minutes to allow the action to role in. There are other factors at a track like LAD, such as Arlington, who plays a big role in our handle because we share a lot of mid-west players.

In doing this I can also tell which other tracks are actively working their times, and which ones are not. Tampa Bay is all over their post times, with aggressive moves throughout the day.

Is it a bunch of two dollar bettors? Maybe. But for for the extra $122k in handle, it's worth it.

[Calzone Lord]

Stuff like that is like sucking dick for crack rocks on the train tracks, and fingerfucl<ing someones grandmother because they think she has a dime stashed away in her pus$y.

It's the competition among tracks -- to try and win the dollar of the compulsive degenerate bettor who isn't giving himself a chance.

And I'm sure that you'll get a few dollars extra dollars dancing around Saratoga's post time - just as Tampa tries to dance around Gulfstream and Santa Anita.

However, that isn't going to lead to explosive long-term handle growth. It's not going to lead to better purses. It's not going to lead to repealing the "suckers game" image attached to betting horses, it's not going to add interest in the sport and bring in the money of a lot of useful new faces.

[Travis Stone]

I understand it's about shifting funds within the market, but heck, market share is a big deal in business. At this point, with national handle dwindling (-3% in July I believe), it's hard to blame a track for trying to gain more share.

But no, it's not the Holy Grail for saving the sport.

[Calzone Lord]

Anyone with an IQ above of 'bag of hammers' or 'box of rocks' should be able to see that the Holy Grail is takeout reductions and not screwing up exchange wagering.

The reverse Holy Grail is takeout increases - kicking the can down the road with exchange wagering - and keeping on with doing nothing or next to nothing.


Every study I've ever seen on the impact of takeout in horse racing - strongly endorses lowering takeout. These are done by respectable econimists

And even though all the "smart" studies say the right things about takeout - they fail to look back 100+ years to the betting patterns people displayed when favorable takeout levels existed.

You think Plunger Walton would bet - adjusted for inflation - over a million dollars on a single race if he was playing at a 20% disadvantage? You think Pittsburg Phil ever would have attempted to even bother with horse racing? People came popping out of the woodwork betting eye-popping sums of money. They almost always got involved in horse ownership -- some very heavily so.

The Cummings Report of 2004 mentioned it - but didn't go back to study the old, old, days when Horse Racing was king to see how much of a reality it was: