Obama excepts his Nobel prize

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by Riot

How so, specifically? Torture? Putting the country to the brink of depression? Deregulating banks so they can run wild? Starting a war and invading a country on a lie? Lying to the citizens? Creating the largest financial deficit in the history of this country? Ruining the USA credibility on the world stage?

Whoops. That wasn't Obama.

......you live in a fantasy land. good luck.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

ignorance especially your ignorance is bliss! and here's the proof in pictures! See that long red line (4 times longer than the previous year?)


http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/...t-in-pictures/

?? Nobody is debating the size of the national debt by year. I agree the debt is as big as that long red line right now.

The subject is where did the debt in that long red line come from, Dell? Not what the debt will be in the future. Read your own article - it's nearly all from Bush!

The fact remains Obama hasn't put us into this horrid debt - Bush did. Obama, however has to get us out.

* President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.
* President Bush began a string of expensive finan­cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.
* President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle­ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern­ment health care fund.
* President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi­dent Obama would double it.
* President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in­creased this spending by 20 percent.
* President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

* President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.

In that last sentence, Bush increased by 2.5 trillion, and the 2.6 trillion in 2009 is just a continuation of that.

Edit: and where the guy above says, "continues" - Obama doesn't have much choice regarding continuing programs that are law. We'll have to see what he does do in the future before we hold him responsible for the imaginary that hasn't yet occurred.

The anticipated budget for this year has already fallen 2%, many less TARP funds have been used than anticipated and budgeted for, a few billion in TARP funds are already being paid back. Obama has already given us a tax cut immediately after he took office.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I see that Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich actually had a lot of good things to say about Obama's acceptance speech (or "exceptance" speech if you're dellinger).
Nice job Obama. You somehow managed to use a peace-award speech as a platform to justify your newly discovered jingoism. Sure you basically made a mockery of the award you were receiving by defending your hawkish Afghanistan policy....but hey....at least you pleased Sarah Palin.

What's Obama supposed to say? He didn't ask for the Peace Prize. He campaigned on withdrawing from Iraq, and always said he's in favor of going into Afghanistan with increased troops.

Is he not supposed to defend our going into Afghanistan now? Is it that you don't agree with going into Afghanistan?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

your way off if you dont think his staff and others in his realm didnt push for
him to get this award..the good news is most of these people did some prison time before getting it. so he will do his time in jail after..

[Riot]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

your way off if you dont think his staff and others in his realm didnt push for
him to get this award..the good news is most of these people did some prison time before getting it. so he will do his time in jail after..

I realize blaming the Nobel Committee for a poor choice doesn't cross the minds of the Obama Haters.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Riot

I realize blaming the Nobel Committee for a poor choice doesn't cross the minds of the Obama Haters.

lots of blame to go around, don't worry

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Obama has already given us a tax cut immediately after he took office.

Who is us?

And are you seriously going to argue that Obama has shown to be fiscally responsible or is going to cut taxes going forward? Hell his people are already criticizing the GOP when complains about spending by saying that their economists told them it was "good for the economy". They are trying to now come across as free spending.

[Cannon Shell]

And what ever happened to "transparancy" or the end of pork?

[PSH]

The only way we can really get out of this economic and financial crisis is to cut taxes. Studies have shown that for every $1.00 that the government spends it equates to only about $1.02 going into GDP or essentially zero effect. For every $1.00 cut in taxes GDP expands by about $3.00....

Cut taxes for corporations and individuals.....
And i am a Democrat....

[witchdoctor]

Originally Posted by PSH

Cut taxes for corporations and individuals.....
And i am a Democrat....

I think you are an oxymoron.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who is us?

And are you seriously going to argue that Obama has shown to be fiscally responsible or is going to cut taxes going forward? Hell his people are already criticizing the GOP when complains about spending by saying that their economists told them it was "good for the economy". They are trying to now come across as free spending.

Yes, I seriously say Obama has been fiscally responsible. Up to you to show different.

TARP - carrying forward what was started by Bush. Not Obama's spending initiative - and btw, he has NOT spent alot of TARP funds that are sitting there. He's saved TARP funds to the tune of 2 billion. They were approved, but weren't needed, haven't been spent. Banks have already paid back about 2 billion, too.

He has indeed already given a tax cut. Look it up if you don't do your own payroll.

Would you have preferred a Great Depression to the Great Recession? That the government should have spent no money at all? And should not spend money on any jobs initiative?

Health bill - we'll have to see what the final form is, the final cost, and if it's true it won't be signed into law unless self-funding.

Is going to cut taxes going forward? We'll have to see. You have blamed him for things he hasn't done yet, I don't care to.

Your turn. Show the fiscal irresponsibility. Convince me. Feel free to use facts.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And what ever happened to "transparancy" or the end of pork?

You might check out the new law that was passed earlier this week, on just that subject.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I seriously say Obama has been fiscally responsible. Up to you to show different.

TARP - carrying forward what was started by Bush. Not Obama's spending initiative - and btw, he has NOT spent alot of TARP funds that are sitting there. He's saved TARP funds to the tune of 2 billion. They were approved, but weren't needed, haven't been spent. Banks have already paid back about 2 billion, too.

He has indeed already given a tax cut. Look it up if you don't do your own payroll.

Would you have preferred a Great Depression to the Great Recession? That the government should have spent no money at all? And should not spend money on any jobs initiative?

Health bill - we'll have to see what the final form is, the final cost, and if it's true it won't be signed into law unless self-funding.

Is going to cut taxes going forward? We'll have to see. You have blamed him for things he hasn't done yet, I don't care to.

Your turn. Show the fiscal irresponsibility. Convince me. Feel free to use facts.

You are so far offbase that it is scary.

Lets start with taxes. Please name the tax cuts that we are seeing. What was passed?

Number 2. Obama is 1-9 to let the Bush tax cuts expire. That act would be in effect raising taxes. There is a better shot of kickin n Screamin being named horse of the year than him extending those.

His first "stimlus" package was $800 billion, mostly wasted. That was his not Bushs'. Here read about his budget...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123569611695588763.html

The falling deficit also assumes the largest tax increase in U.S. history, starting in 2011 with the repeal of the Bush tax rates on incomes higher than $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples.

In the real world, two of every three tax filers who fall into this income category are small business owners or investors, who are certainly capable of finding ways to invest that allow them to declare less taxable income. The real impact of this looming tax increase will be to cast further uncertainty over economic decisions and either slow or postpone the recovery. Ditto for the estimated $646 billion from a new cap-and-trade tax, which no one wants to call a tax but would give the political class vast new leverage over the private economy

The biggest illusion in this budget may be its optimistic economic forecast. The White House assumes that the economy will decline by only 1.2% this year, before growing by 3.2% next year. This assumes the recovery will begin later this year and gather steam quickly to return to normal levels of growth. By 2010 to 2013, the budget adds, the economy will be cooking by an average of 4% a year -- which is also how it conjures up magical deficit reduction

This growth is a lovely thought, but how? The only impetus for growth in this budget comes from the government spending more money that it is taking out of the job-producing private economy. With $1 trillion of new entitlements, $1.4 trillion in new taxes, and $5 trillion in new debt, America's entrepreneurs aren't getting any help soon from Washington.


TARP was a questionable program however if anything is going to be credited with saving us from the imaginary depression, that would be it. Oh yeah Obama wants to spend the rest of that money too despite the law stating that it is to be used for deficit reduction. Remember that thing he was going to reduce? Bank of America just finished off paying back $68 billion to TARP. Citibank is getting ready to pay back theirs.

I like the part where you say he hasnt spent alot of TARP funds. BECAUSE HE ISNT ALLOWED TO!!!! HELLO!!!

What jobs initiatives have been so successful? Unemployment is still at 10%.

Anyone that believes that this health debacle they are tossing together isnt going to cost trillions is drinking thier own bathwater. For the naive, the healthcare bill is supposed to be about "history" for Obama. Regardless of the moral arguments or details dealing with it, it is hardly a stretch to say that it will be extremely costly and the chances that it will do what it says it will for what it says it will cost are extremely slim (and thats being conservative).

The fact that Stimlus number 2 is being conjured up already, that is the new one where we throw small business a bone since they are getting ready to be savaged, shows the ineffectiveness or in some cases waste of the first $800 billion.

Despite the complicated nature of the economic scene, it really boils down to a few simple things. One is that govt spending is unsustainable without a source of the revenue for that spending since so very little of it causes real growth. Our corporations are already among the highest taxed in the world and are getting ready to get hit by a huge new round of taxes to pay for that govt spending. Corporations will not be able to expand nor reinvest already diminishing profits therefore not be able to create jobs or grow the economy. Some will streamline or downsize or relocate off shore.

Then the federal budget which is based upon 3% growth next year (complete pipedream) will fall way short because those darn tax reciepts are short because of those evil corporations not doing thier part. That will force Mr Obama to reignight his spending spree again because you know we need to kick in that economic growth and govt spending is the only way we know how!

I suppose that Cuba and Russia and those other anti-capitalist, free spending govts felt this way too. Thier economies have been great models to follow...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

You might check out the new law that was passed earlier this week, on just that subject.

LOL

Like the ones that were going to help the consumers with the credit card companies?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Much like Tiger Woods and Lady Gaga ... Obama proved without a doubt in that Peace Prize speech that he's a complete phony trying hard to project a marketable image.

The only thing left to argue is ... of the three ... who is the most talented at their respected craft?

Randy Moss should be elected president.

[Riot]

Lets start with taxes. Please name the tax cuts that we are seeing. What was passed?

C'mon - if you are going to talk about how fiscally irresponsible Obama is, you have to pay attention to what he has done fiscally. Google: Obama tax cut 2009 Most employees got an immediate deduction in their paychecks (cash in pocket) early this year. There are deductions on this years tax form, too. Mortgage, capital gains adjustments. This has been talked about on this board

Number 2. Obama is 1-9 to let the Bush tax cuts expire.

Okay, you said Obama has been fiscally irresponsible. The above is a guess about the future. We''ll see. But sorry, no, saying he will probably do something doesn't give him credit for having already been fiscally irresponsible.

A blank here. Except for KNS. Good shot at HOY in the $5K and under division

His first "stimlus" package was $800 billion, mostly wasted. That was his not Bushs'. Here read about his budget...

The first stimulus package kept us out of a depression. You disagree. Draw here.

The budget is not yet passed, so no, you can't use that as something showing his fiscal irresponsiblity, either.

TARP was a questionable program however if anything is going to be credited with saving us from the imaginary depression, that would be it. Oh yeah Obama wants to spend the rest of that money too despite the law stating that it is to be used for deficit reduction.

Yes, everyone knows that to use, for job creation and small business "stimulus", $50 billion of the $200 billion of the unused TARP funds and the $200 billion so far of the paid-back TARP funds, would take Congressional approval. Yes, he wants to do it, yes, it has to be approved. He can't take the money and do it on the sly

So you think it's fiscally irresponsible to do the jobs/small business stimulus package?

I like the part where you say he hasnt spent alot of TARP funds. BECAUSE HE ISNT ALLOWED TO!!!! HELLO!!!

No, not talking about the jobs program, talking about TARP funds, TARP program only, funds that are not going to be disbursed into TARP. Bush started the TARP dispersal, Obama is continuing, but he is NOT going to disperse the final $200 billion already approved before he was elected.

What jobs initiatives have been so successful? Unemployment is still at 10%.

?? Nobody said the jobs initiatives have started yet. Nobody expects unemployment to magically drop to 5% in the next few months. You know about the small business and jobs stuff, you've talked about it here.

So basically, all you have to show how Obama has been fiscally irresponsible is .... the above? And your fear of what he will do in the future?

Not very convincing. He may turn out to be a disaster - and you will be free to say, "I told you so!", but he sure isn't yet. Actually, considering the disaster he walked into, he's doing fine so far.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Much like Tiger Woods and Lady Gaga ... Obama proved without a doubt in that Peace Prize speech that he's a complete phony trying hard to project a marketable image.

The only thing left to argue is ... of the three ... who is the most talented at their respected craft?

Randy Moss should be elected president.

What would be cool if he selected the other Randy Moss as his running mate - I'd vote for them.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

LOL

Like the ones that were going to help the consumers with the credit card companies?

2 credit cards, 1 with 7.24% apr have told me to accept 29.99 and 22.99 or opt out by 2/2010

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

2 credit cards, 1 with 7.24% apr have told me to accept 29.99 and 22.99 or opt out by 2/2010

i wonder why someone faced with this thinks an adam smith unseen hand free market is the solution.

what's your point? other than the regulation was flaccid and didn't go far enough.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

?? Nobody is debating the size of the national debt by year. I agree the debt is as big as that long red line right now.

The subject is where did the debt in that long red line come from, Dell? Not what the debt will be in the future. Read your own article - it's nearly all from Bush!

The fact remains Obama hasn't put us into this horrid debt - Bush did. Obama, however has to get us out.




In that last sentence, Bush increased by 2.5 trillion, and the 2.6 trillion in 2009 is just a continuation of that.

Edit: and where the guy above says, "continues" - Obama doesn't have much choice regarding continuing programs that are law. We'll have to see what he does do in the future before we hold him responsible for the imaginary that hasn't yet occurred.

The anticipated budget for this year has already fallen 2%, many less TARP funds have been used than anticipated and budgeted for, a few billion in TARP funds are already being paid back. Obama has already given us a tax cut immediately after he took office.

We read the same article and come to opposite conclusions.

President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.

President Bush began a string of expensive financial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.

President Bush created a Medicare drug entitlement that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new government health care fund. (that's one year not a decade)

President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. President Obama would double it.

President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already increased this spending by 20 percent.

President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.

I just believe and always will that going further into debt as either an individual or nation is NOT and never will be the answer. Unless you have a terminal illness.