Eagles Thumping Giants - Page 2

philcski · #21 11-01-2009, 06:58 PM

Nicks is good. Harvin is really good- offensive rookie of the year IMO. He fits with the Vikings so well, too.

But you guys gotta check out this guy Byrd. He's got 7 interceptions in 4 games for the Bills, who would be 1-7 without him. He personally won two games for them already playing a position that usually requires several years of experience. As for ROY of the year voting he'll probably get passed over because he's playing for an irrelevant team in a forgotten market but he's the best rookie defensive player I've seen by quite a bit.

King Glorious · #22 11-01-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What exactly did I do to get you in a huff? Harvin has more catches, more yards, more TD's, and fills two positions. I mean it is obvious stuff. And before you start with the Nicks was hurt stuff, Harvin has been playing banged up and sick. So Harvin it appears is more durable than Nicks as well. Enough?

Going into this week:
Harvin had 23 catches for 285 yards (12.4 ypc), and two touchdowns. He had played seven games (three starts) and his yards per game is 40.7. His yards after the catch average is 5.6.

Nicks had 16 catches for 315 yards (19.7 ypc), and four touchdowns. He had played five games (one start) and his yards per game is 63.0. His yards after the catch average is 11.1.

Harvin is a dynamic kick returner, one of the best in the league already. That is what brings him into the conversation. Just off of their receiving numbers thus far, it's not even close to me and Harvin is playing with a much better quarterback. Nicks is third in the NFL in yards per catch (Miles Austin 23.7, DeSean Jackson 20.1) and his yards after the catch is second among all receivers (Austin 12.2). You'd take Harvin and that's fine. I won't tell you that you are wrong. I'll take Nicks because I think he is more productive on the field.

docicu3 · #23 11-01-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And I think Nicks is good and who knows he may be great someday but KG insists that he is the best rookie bar none without much really "proving" it. I'm sure there are some defensive rookies that are doing at least as good as Phil pointed out but dont care enough to look.

Turns out there's a damn good football game being played in New England next week. The first of several attempts to build a cushion to win the division. The Patriots need this first game against Miami badly...

Cannon Shell · #24 11-01-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Going into this week:
Harvin had 23 catches for 285 yards (12.4 ypc), and two touchdowns. He had played seven games (three starts) and his yards per game is 40.7. His yards after the catch average is 5.6.

Nicks had 16 catches for 315 yards (19.7 ypc), and four touchdowns. He had played five games (one start) and his yards per game is 63.0. His yards after the catch average is 11.1.

Harvin is a dynamic kick returner, one of the best in the league already. That is what brings him into the conversation. Just off of their receiving numbers thus far, it's not even close to me and Harvin is playing with a much better quarterback. Nicks is third in the NFL in yards per catch (Miles Austin 23.7, DeSean Jackson 20.1) and his yards after the catch is second among all receivers (Austin 12.2). You'd take Harvin and that's fine. I won't tell you that you are wrong. I'll take Nicks because I think he is more productive on the field.

averages are fairly irrelevant with such a small size sample. I just find it impossible to make 16 catches (many in garbage time like the TD against the Saints when they were playing the special teamers on defense) over 5 games into a complete case for anyone.

Harvin is third in the NFL in yards per touch. He also is avg over 5 yards running the ball.

Cannon Shell · #25 11-01-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

Turns out there's a damn good football game being played in New England next week. The first of several attempts to build a cushion to win the division. The Patriots need this first game against Miami badly...

Miami needs it pretty bad too

dalakhani · #26 11-01-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Going into this week:
Harvin had 23 catches for 285 yards (12.4 ypc), and two touchdowns. He had played seven games (three starts) and his yards per game is 40.7. His yards after the catch average is 5.6.

Nicks had 16 catches for 315 yards (19.7 ypc), and four touchdowns. He had played five games (one start) and his yards per game is 63.0. His yards after the catch average is 11.1.

Harvin is a dynamic kick returner, one of the best in the league already. That is what brings him into the conversation. Just off of their receiving numbers thus far, it's not even close to me and Harvin is playing with a much better quarterback. Nicks is third in the NFL in yards per catch (Miles Austin 23.7, DeSean Jackson 20.1) and his yards after the catch is second among all receivers (Austin 12.2). You'd take Harvin and that's fine. I won't tell you that you are wrong. I'll take Nicks because I think he is more productive on the field.

Harvin is one of the best kick returners in the league. If he didnt line up a single down at wide receiver, he would still be a more valuable player than nicks. If you throw in his receiving, its not even a conversation.

Nicks is a good rookie but he is not a difference maker in any way right now. Teams have to actually adjust their gameplan to stop Harvin. I would imagine they barely consider Nicks who has been putting up merely okay numbers in blowout games.

King Glorious · #27 11-01-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

averages are fairly irrelevant with such a small size sample. I just find it impossible to make 16 catches (many in garbage time like the TD against the Saints when they were playing the special teamers on defense) over 5 games into a complete case for anyone.

Harvin is third in the NFL in yards per touch. He also is avg over 5 yards running the ball.

I don't go by the averages but you said more catches, yards, and touchdowns so I went by the stats. I thought Nicks was a better receiver before they had accumalated any stats so I don't need them to support me but even if it is a small sample size, it's what we have so far and they make a pretty good support case for any Nicks fans.

I don't think it's fair to use yards per touch when you've got a guy that returns kickoffs. Not many top receivers get the chance to up their averages on kickoff returns and fewer running backs do. Ted Ginn just got 201 yards on two returns today. Really helped his yards per touch average.

#28 11-01-2009, 07:50 PM

I bet you would let Nicks fart in your face.

King Glorious · #29 11-01-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Harvin is one of the best kick returners in the league. If he didnt line up a single down at wide receiver, he would still be a more valuable player than nicks. If you throw in his receiving, its not even a conversation.

Nicks is a good rookie but he is not a difference maker in any way right now. Teams have to actually adjust their gameplan to stop Harvin. I would imagine they barely consider Nicks who has been putting up merely okay numbers in blowout games.

I couldn't disagree with this more. I guess Ted Ginn is more valuable than any receiver in the league too now?

Which is more ridiculous? Me saying that I think he's the best rookie in the league or Dalakhani saying Harvin is so much better that it's not even a conversation?

#30 11-01-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I couldn't disagree with this more. I guess Ted Ginn is more valuable than any receiver in the league too now?

Which is more ridiculous? Me saying that I think he's the best rookie in the league or Dalakhani saying Harvin is so much better that it's not even a conversation?

I'd say #3. You saying that you wouldn't let Nicks fart in your face.

dalakhani · #31 11-01-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I couldn't disagree with this more. I guess Ted Ginn is more valuable than any receiver in the league too now?

Which is more ridiculous? Me saying that I think he's the best rookie in the league or Dalakhani saying Harvin is so much better that it's not even a conversation?

I didnt say "any receiver in the league". I said more valuable than Hakeem Nicks.

And yes, its a ridiuclous conversation.

Cannon Shell · #32 11-02-2009, 04:35 AM

Stumbled across this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4598391

3kings · #33 11-02-2009, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Stumbled across this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4598391

I would say this article promotes and obvious anti New York bias.

I guess not, Sanchez made the list.

But really, the KG may be correct that Nicks will be the best player going forward but to this point Harvin's production and contribution towers over him.
I understand that Hicks was banged up and didn't start but that's not the other WR's fault.

SniperSB23 · #34 11-02-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Stumbled across this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4598391

With two more picks yesterday Byrd should really jump up that list.

Antitrust32 · #35 11-02-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Instead of telling me he's not the best rookie, maybe you could tell me who is and then give me undeniable proof that he is. I'm only giving my opinion on the matter since there's no such thing as a fact but if it's indeed a fact that I'm wrong, please correct me.

Mr. Percy Harvin is the leagues best play maker Rookie. Really cant comment on overall rookie cause I havent followed every single team and ya got guys like Philski pointed out. The proof for Harvin is in the football games. All you have to do is watch.

Also, Maclin > Nicks. Maclin has been playing good football too.. he has GREAT hands and just a good football player. Having Action Jackson and Maclin on the field together is a great thing in my opinion.

Of course the 2nd paragraph is biased though.

MISTERGEE · #36 11-02-2009, 02:45 PM

might end up being Crabtree. he is off to good start considering he missed, offseason preseason regular season until last couple games with 11 catches for 137 yards playing with subpar qbs

South Beach Luv · #37 11-02-2009, 04:15 PM

Maclin is having a decent rookie year, I have all but forgotten Kevin Curtis.

King Glorious · #38 11-02-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3kings

I would say this article promotes and obvious anti New York bias.

I guess not, Sanchez made the list.

But really, the KG may be correct that Nicks will be the best player going forward but to this point Harvin's production and contribution towers over him.
I understand that Hicks was banged up and didn't start but that's not the other WR's fault.

So Nicks averages more yards per game, more per catch, more yards after the catch, has one less total touchdown in about 30 less touches and has done all of this in two less games...........and Harvin's production towers over him? I'm completely lost.

3kings · #39 11-02-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So Nicks averages more yards per game, more per catch, more yards after the catch, has one less total touchdown in about 30 less touches and has done all of this in two less games...........and Harvin's production towers over him? I'm completely lost.

As a reciever they are comparible but I was considering total contribution to his team. Harvin has been spectacular on special teams.

These are Mike Wallace's stats:
21 catchs for 368 yds 17.5 per catch 2 TD's

He was the 4th reciever for the first couple games of the season. He as yet to start a game and plays maybe half the snaps. So has Mike Wallace been better than Nicks?

dalakhani · #40 11-03-2009, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3kings

As a reciever they are comparible but I was considering total contribution to his team. Harvin has been spectacular on special teams.

These are Mike Wallace's stats:
21 catchs for 368 yds 17.5 per catch 2 TD's

He was the 4th reciever for the first couple games of the season. He as yet to start a game and plays maybe half the snaps. So has Mike Wallace been better than Nicks?

Absolutely. And look at where the catches came. They were important plays in the middle of tight games as opposed to garbage time stats in blow outs.

I think at the end of the day thats the point. Not just that Harvin has made more plays but that the plays he made actually MATTERED.