What is C BROWN UP TO?

[golfer]

Based on the Thorograph figures:

Silver Timber was consistently running 5's and 6's from age 3 to age 5.
In this 6 yr old gelding's first start this year he ran a 5. Was then claimed from Linda Rice, and in his 1st start for Chad Brown, ran a 2. Unless yesterday's course was playing EXTREMELY fast, he improved off that 2. Someone more knowledgeable than I, please tell how normal it is for a 6 yr old to run lifetime best races back to back, after being claimed from a trainer who is far from incompetent (to say the least)?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by golfer

Based on the Thorograph figures:

Silver Timber was consistently running 5's and 6's from age 3 to age 5.
In this 6 yr old gelding's first start this year he ran a 5. Was then claimed from Linda Rice, and in his 1st start for Chad Brown, ran a 2. Unless yesterday's course was playing EXTREMELY fast, he improved off that 2. Someone more knowledgeable than I, please tell how normal it is for a 6 yr old to run lifetime best races back to back, after being claimed from a trainer who is far from incompetent (to say the least)?

Thanks for posting this, as I think it gets to the point from another perspective and thus add even more credence to what's being advanced here.

I have charts of this horse's races going back to 8/13/07 at SAR. That's 13 races, including the two under Brown. Prior to its 1st race under Brown, this would be 11 races, this horse had never wiped-out a field. Never come close. Yet, it did so, 1st time Brown. While wipe-outs happen more rarely on turf than do on dirt (especially off tracks), they're even rarer in sprints, as it takes a monster effort to separate from EVERY other horse in the race going a short distance. And yesterday, the ****er ran the following splits:

21.71
22.82
10.67
12.40

Now running 10.67 for the 5F eighth is quite a feat. Don't think I've ever seen that on the BEL turf. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.) But doing so after an initial quarter of 21.71 is pretty remarkable, hard turf and all. I mean, they don't do **** like this on the Cali turf sprinting.

[MisterB]

How did he take Quit Meadow from Hall of Famer Nick Zito who was running at penn national, and win a stakes in Tampa, and get beat by a lip in the G3 All is Vanity? Must be in the water

How did he take a Bill Mott horse "Maram" and win a Breeders Cup?

Must be the water

[Fearless Leader]

It's both funny and sad at the same time that all of you clowns want to criticize Chad Brown for doing a good job. It's not like it is unheard of for someone to do much better with a horse then some of the names you mentioned. The hype surrounding those "name" outfits is oftentimes undeserved, and this is merely another example.

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

You guys did not see this coming in the PPs? For shame...

I don't look at PP's.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

21.71
22.82
10.67
12.40

wow

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

ALL IN the FAT WEIGH
http://twitter.com/the_mf_fat_man

how did i miss the announcement thread!?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

That would be the Bossman who edited it.

really, and your text?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by golfer

Based on the Thorograph figures:

Silver Timber was consistently running 5's and 6's from age 3 to age 5.
In this 6 yr old gelding's first start this year he ran a 5. Was then claimed from Linda Rice, and in his 1st start for Chad Brown, ran a 2. Unless yesterday's course was playing EXTREMELY fast, he improved off that 2. Someone more knowledgeable than I, please tell how normal it is for a 6 yr old to run lifetime best races back to back, after being claimed from a trainer who is far from incompetent (to say the least)?

great job, its not normal at all...I am sure he just change shoes or dentists or something.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Fearless Leader

It's both funny and sad at the same time that all of you clowns want to criticize Chad Brown for doing a good job. It's not like it is unheard of for someone to do much better with a horse then some of the names you mentioned. The hype surrounding those "name" outfits is oftentimes undeserved, and this is merely another example.

Is it criticism or just critical thinking?

You see this with a 40k 3 year old in socal and people would be flipping out, this is a 6 year old.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

I don't look at PP's.

[turf fan]

Originally Posted by MisterB

How did he take Quit Meadow from Hall of Famer Nick Zito who was running at penn national, and win a stakes in Tampa, and get beat by a lip in the G3 All is Vanity? Must be in the water

How did he take a Bill Mott horse "Maram" and win a Breeders Cup?

Must be the water

Check your facts! Maram never started for Mott. I watched this filly train the entire summer on the Saratoga main track under CB's care.
As for Zito, his turf win percentage is around 2%.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by turf fan

Check your facts! Maram never started for Mott. I watched this filly train the entire summer on the Saratoga main track under CB's care.
As for Zito, his turf win percentage is around 2%.

The horse was in Motts barn in training, and transferred to Chad in a owner and trainer agreement. Actually Mott had his choice to send one of the owners horses to Chad. Mott chose Maram. He didn't feel she was the better of the others. So get your facts correct. As for Zito, he stated the horse couldn't run, and the owners transfered the horse to Chad.

If you watched Marams works, How come I never seen you, or how did you know Maram was training. Impossible unless your at CB's barn, or your a clocker.

As for the main track, your wrong. CB trained on the Oklahoma track, from the Annex. He has now moved to barn 13, backside.

[10 pnt move up]

Gary Gullo....I am sure he just is having a great meet..sure there is nothing funny going on, guy is like the next bobby frankel.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by MisterB

The horse was in Motts barn in training, and transferred to Chad in a owner and trainer agreement. Actually Mott had his choice to send one of the owners horses to Chad. Mott chose Maram. He didn't feel she was the better of the others. So get your facts correct. As for Zito, he stated the horse couldn't run, and the owners transfered the horse to Chad.

If you watched Marams works, How come I never seen you, or how did you know Maram was training. Impossible unless your at CB's barn, or your a clocker.

As for the main track, your wrong. CB trained on the Oklahoma track, from the Annex. He has now moved to barn 13, backside.

Well then, maybe Mott was just wrong. He was just dreadful at Saratoga last year.

Maram was stabled off Gridley St last summer. Not sure where he is this year but I watched two of his horses train on Monday at Oklahoma, while standing with him. He was kind enough to identfy the horses and spend a few minutes in conversation.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Gary Gullo....I am sure he just is having a great meet..sure there is nothing funny going on, guy is like the next bobby frankel.

That't funny he worked for Frankel for 5 yrs, nothing like milking knowledge from the master.

[turf fan]

Originally Posted by MisterB

The horse was in Motts barn in training, and transferred to Chad in a owner and trainer agreement. Actually Mott had his choice to send one of the owners horses to Chad. Mott chose Maram. He didn't feel she was the better of the others. So get your facts correct. As for Zito, he stated the horse couldn't run, and the owners transfered the horse to Chad.

If you watched Marams works, How come I never seen you, or how did you know Maram was training. Impossible unless your at CB's barn, or your a clocker.

As for the main track, your wrong. CB trained on the Oklahoma track, from the Annex. He has now moved to barn 13, backside.

My facts are correct, Maram never started for Mott. Maram trained on the main track the entire summer meet last year from a private barn.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

It's just my observation. Why would C Brown or anyone else care what I have to say?

In the meantime, fire up some replays of Silver Timber's races last (and early this) year and check him out in the lane for yourself. You might be the one needing to retract his statement after that. You never know.

i don't think chad brown worries about what you have to say

he improved the horse , happens evey day across tracks across america

steve- am i to believe that chad is beating the detention barns in ny is that what you are implying here?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by gales0678

i don't think chad brown worries about what you have to say

he improved the horse , happens evey day across tracks across america

steve- am i to believe that chad is beating the detention barns in ny is that what you are implying here?

The set of all the possible known and unknown drugs that could enhance the performance of a tbred is larger than the set that NYRA (or any other racing board) tests for. And, this doesn't apply to just horse racing but cycling, track and field, etc.

Assuming that Brown is cheating with this horse (and probably others) thus makes more sense than assuming that he's not cheating because he passed the detention barn. And this would be BEFORE the evident HUGE STEPUP in performance under Brown.

But, who cares? I've been in this game long enough to have a good idea as to who is juicing and who isn't by the way their horses perform. Brown's supporters can stand on their head, for all I care, but it won't make a difference. I formulate my own opinions.

Back in the '70's Pancho Martin was consistently leading trainer in NYC. No one questioned that Pancho was a very good trainer. It's interesting that Pancho would take all these OLD, seemingly broken down horses, that had back class, and get them, at age 5,6,7. etc., to run back to their best previous races -- from years prior. And, once they got 'in form' they'd stay in form. Get my drift?

The ironic thing is that I bet this horse and his other recent wipe-out special, Why West. She didn't run a HUGE race the other day, did she?

[SniperSB23]

I know there is a BC Turf Sprint now but has that somehow widened the gulf between stakes level turf sprinters and $25k claimers?

[turf fan]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

The set of all the possible known and unknown drugs that could enhance the performance of a tbred is larger than the set that NYRA (or any other racing board) tests for. And, this doesn't apply to just horse racing but cycling, track and field, etc.

Assuming that Brown is cheating with this horse (and probably others) thus makes more sense than assuming that he's not cheating because he passed the detention barn. And this would be BEFORE the evident HUGE STEPUP in performance under Brown.

But, who cares? I've been in this game long enough to have a good idea as to who is juicing and who isn't by the way their horses perform. Brown's supporters can stand on their head, for all I care, but it won't make a difference. I formulate my own opinions.

Back in the '70's Pancho Martin was consistently leading trainer in NYC. No one questioned that Pancho was a very good trainer. It's interesting that Pancho would take all these OLD, seemingly broken down horses, that had back class, and get them, at age 5,6,7. etc., to run back to their best previous races -- from years prior. And, once they got 'in form' they'd stay in form. Get my drift?

The ironic thing is that I bet this horse and his other recent wipe-out special, Why West. She didn't run a HUGE race the other day, did she?

Be careful! Cheating is a strong word when you are assuming. Remember
you were wrong about Maram's location last year. Your inaccuracies should be kept to yourself!