Nicanor wins again - Page 2

hockey2315 · #21 06-17-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

I will wait for a Beyer on that.
That course is funky with the turns.
Even though those fractions dont look that great,
there are a lot of changes in pace due to the turning.
What exactly are good fractions on that course?

A 3 turn mile and 1/8...

93

hockey2315 · #22 06-17-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757

Set the pace, put away the stalkers and held off the closer by about 2. How can you knock a horse that wins when he suppose to. ? Several older horses in there too.Always someone complaining either they had him over his head or he didnt beat anyyone. Looks like they are managing this horse and cashing checks, isnt that the way its suppose to work?

Ya that closer he held off by two that was gaining on him is a total monster. I just find the level of excitement over this horse to be a little excessive and clearly only a product of his lineage. I was very, very impressed by his last race, but can't understand how anyone could see his race today as another step forward. We'll see how he does in stakes company next time if they run him. . .

geeker2 · #23 06-17-2009, 07:06 PM

He is now neck and neck with POTN for HOY

JerseyJ · #24 06-17-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeker2

He is now neck and neck with POTN for HOY

Please, I would take Nicanor at any distance on any surface over any conditions at any price against that overrated sluggish mediocrity.

Indian Charlie · #25 06-17-2009, 07:10 PM

I heard on ATR that they are aiming to take on Affirmatif next out.

hockey2315 · #26 06-17-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

Please, I would take Nicanor at any distance on any surface over any conditions at any price against that overrated sluggish mediocrity.

I can't stand POTN, but would love to set up a match race and book your action.

blackthroatedwind · #27 06-17-2009, 08:06 PM

I heard Wesley Ward just took over his training and he is currently favored for the Arc.

randallscott35 · #28 06-17-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I heard Wesley Ward just took over his training and he is currently favored for the Arc.

lol

Indian Charlie · #29 06-17-2009, 08:12 PM

That would be a happy day for American racing.

Bobby Fischer · #30 06-17-2009, 08:19 PM

head was getting high, and he would have been happy to stop any time in the stretch...

He's begging to lose the blinkers and get that Shadow roll back on

you can't even complain about the jockey and Napravinik is not on the A-list of finesse wire-to-wire turf jockeys, but the horse is so far from being a polished runner that it didn't really stand out.

Lets go Matz, get to work! - yea you the trainer with more knowledge in his little finger than my whole arm-chair trainer shtick

Fortunate they had post 2 with that chute. If they had drawn outside, it could have cost 2 lengths.

oh yea - I thought he ran a pretty good race. He isn't a bet against in that turf stakes unless some good horses run

#31 06-17-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeker2

He is now neck and neck with POTN for HOY

wonder where Quality Road and Revenge are in the standings right now...

JerseyJ · #32 06-17-2009, 08:33 PM

The big problem at Delaware regarding turf racing is the fact that they scarcely use the turf course there, as they only run on average 2 races per day or so on it, 3 on a good day. Here's Nicanor's fractions today compared to the other turf race of the day, a 25K claimer for Fillies and Mares NW2L going 7 1/2 furlongs...The Nicanor allowance was 1 1/8 miles so he set a pretty legit pace when comparing the two races. Plus the other question is how firm that course really is as there's been a ton of rain in the Mid-Atlantic region over the last couple days. I was in Lawrenceville, NJ running a hockey camp over the weekend and it poured like crazy all day on Saturday, and it has been raining a ton lately. Delaware in addition to that always plays slow for the most part.

R5(claimer)-23.95,48.06,1:13.84,1:32.73 (23.4,48.0,1:13.4,1:32.3)

R8(allowance)-24.07,48.48,1:13.67,1:39.53, 1:52.95 (24.0,48.2,1:13.3,1:39.2,1:52.4)

RolloTomasi · #33 06-17-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Ya that closer he held off by two that was gaining on him is a total monster. I just find the level of excitement over this horse to be a little excessive and clearly only a product of his lineage. I was very, very impressed by his last race, but can't understand how anyone could see his race today as another step forward. We'll see how he does in stakes company next time if they run him. . .

What exactly is the criteria you are using to determine that Nicanor took a step back with this win? The number of lengths he won by? As much as you would tried to brush it off in a prior post, the fact that he was facing winners (not to mention adding a bit more ground) was a significant step up, one he handled just fine.

By the way, one of those garbage horses he beat today happened to defeat Tale of Ekati, Majestic Warrior, J Be K, Pyro, Giant Moon, Visionaire, and Cool Coal Man in previous starts.

geeker2 · #34 06-17-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

wonder where Quality Road and Revenge are in the standings right now...

A win at Beulah Park could move either of them to the top of the list...

#35 06-17-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeker2

A win at Beulah Park could move either of them to the top of the list...

I dont even know what the plans for I Want Revenge are...
is he coming back this year?

hockey2315 · #36 06-17-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What exactly is the criteria you are using to determine that Nicanor took a step back with this win? The number of lengths he won by? As much as you would tried to brush it off in a prior post, the fact that he was facing winners (not to mention adding a bit more ground) was a significant step up, one he handled just fine.

By the way, one of those garbage horses he beat today happened to defeat Tale of Ekati, Majestic Warrior, J Be K, Pyro, Giant Moon, Visionaire, and Cool Coal Man in previous starts.

There are some real gems in here. Is that you Gretchen?

JerseyJ · #37 06-17-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Ya that closer he held off by two that was gaining on him is a total monster. I just find the level of excitement over this horse to be a little excessive and clearly only a product of his lineage. I was very, very impressed by his last race, but can't understand how anyone could see his race today as another step forward. We'll see how he does in stakes company next time if they run him. . .

That closer he happened to hold off was also coming out of a very, very strong race in November at Aqueduct. Hangingbyathread came back to win and has proven to be a very useful NY-bred grass runner, and the top two have really developed into good horses...Yield Bogey if you missed it happened to finish in 3rd in the G3 Poker Handicap beating 2007 BC Mile winner and 2008 BC Mile 2nd place finisher Kip Deville who won his Breeders Cup over the same type of course that the Poker was ran on, on Sunday. Blues Street held great form over the winter in Florida, and recently won a 75K stake on the grass at Mountaineer.

Regarding Pioneerofthe Nile, Nicanor is faster than him on Dirt or Turf, has more speed and more tactical speed, and is simply a better horse than that slug. I would take Nicanor any day of the week against Pioneerofthe Nile. I just hope they eventually meet so maybe Nicanor would be a price against that mediocrity.

SniperSB23 · #38 06-17-2009, 09:59 PM

I can't say I've paid any attention to 3yo turf races this year but how many horses can people honestly put ahead of Nicanor at this point? I understand the backlash cause he was so overrated from the start but it seems like there comes a point people have to forget about that and just evaluate him like he was any other horse. I would think at this point he has to stand a very good chance of being a stakes winner before the year is out.

NTamm1215 · #39 06-17-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

That closer he happened to hold off was also coming out of a very, very strong race in November at Aqueduct. Hangingbyathread came back to win and has proven to be a very useful NY-bred grass runner, and the top two have really developed into good horses...Yield Bogey if you missed it happened to finish in 3rd in the G3 Poker Handicap beating 2007 BC Mile winner and 2008 BC Mile 2nd place finisher Kip Deville who won his Breeders Cup over the same type of course that the Poker was ran on, on Sunday. Blues Street held great form over the winter in Florida, and recently won a 75K stake on the grass at Mountaineer.

Regarding Pioneerofthe Nile, Nicanor is faster than him on Dirt or Turf, has more speed and more tactical speed, and is simply a better horse than that slug. I would take Nicanor any day of the week against Pioneerofthe Nile. I just hope they eventually meet so maybe Nicanor would be a price against that mediocrity.

He trailed the allowance field you reference all the way around the track. Sure, it was a respectable field but he never fired an in fact picked up his 7th consecutive defeat against N1X company in that loss.

Beating White Holiday and any of the other stiffs in that race today at Delaware is not a feather in Nicanor's cap. The thing is, he proved he was a good horse with a couple of good efforts at Gulfstream and the huge turf debut. I just don't see how anyone could have watched his race today and become any more certain that he's a graded stakes caliber horse.

NT

hockey2315 · #40 06-17-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He trailed the allowance field you reference all the way around the track. Sure, it was a respectable field but he never fired an in fact picked up his 7th consecutive defeat against N1X company in that loss.

Beating White Holiday and any of the other stiffs in that race today at Delaware is not a feather in Nicanor's cap. The thing is, he proved he was a good horse with a couple of good efforts at Gulfstream and the huge turf debut. I just don't see how anyone could have watched his race today and become any more certain that he's a graded stakes caliber horse.

NT

We agree?! That's a first.