witholding taxes on winnings

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Why would you have to list yourself as a professional gambler? I was unaware that you had to list an occupation to be able to offset your capital gains from gambling. I thought you were pretty safe keeping your losing tickets and/or your logs from ADW's to document losses for evidence if your audited.

I wrote that there are two ways to write off losses against gambling wins. One way is to itemize deductions. The second way is to file a Sch C saying gambling is your business.

Filing a Sch C has the advantage of being able to deduct expenses in addition to losses. (and it also bypasses the itemizing requirement) Filing a Sch C has the disadvantage of having to pay self-employment tax on net profit and possibly inviting IRS scrutiny, too.

--Dunbar

[obie1]

I want to thank everyone on the tax info. I do understand now that if you can't itemize your taxes you get screwed! No wonder why people look for the 10 percenters. I really think a lot of people are confused about this issue. The good news is that I had a hit the bad news is that it no way comes close to my loses. I only wish we could do something about this.

[skippy3481]

Well there are several ways around it. One could "pick up" losing tickets at a racetrack. Two things about this. 1. The tickets you pick up, need to be checked for time-stamping. You dont want to have tickets that have nearly identical time stamps as you cant be in two places at once. 2. Try to find tickets that are clean. If it looks like people have stepped on them, or put a cigarette out on them, it wont work. You can do this for however many losers you need. Just make sure you pick them up on several diffrent days..

[Port Conway Lane]

A friend of mine was audited and the irs wasn't interested in any tickets he had,they only wanted to see the programs he had saved and the wagers that were written down in those programs.

[GBBob]

[quote=Port Conway Lane]A friend of mine was audited and the irs wasn't interested in any tickets he had,they only wanted to see the programs he had saved and the wagers that were written down in those programs.[/QUOTE]


Even for the IRS, that's crazy...I've never written a wager down in a program in my life. Well..maybe once, but still...

[herkhorse]

I agree, it's insane. Everyone does things differently. Sometimes I just have a Racing Form, no program. Am I supposed to save every form? Maybe the IRS should post some guidelines.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

I agree, it's insane. Everyone does things differently. Sometimes I just have a Racing Form, no program. Am I supposed to save every form? Maybe the IRS should post some guidelines.

I got this from the irs site:
"It is important to keep an accurate diary or similar record of your gambling winnings and losses. To deduct your losses, you must be able to provide receipts, tickets, statements or other records that show the amount of both your winnings and losses."
My friend was told that is many cases but not all that what the irs was most interested in was consistency in a persons wagering habits rather than a bucket full of tickets that could easily be picked up off of the ground. He was aware of this and had both,the tickets and his wagers written in his programs.If someone only had tickets I suppose that would be acceptable as well.In any event the irs didn't bother to ferret through his losing tickets.

[South Beach Luv]

I wonder if somebody like sdjcom could just print out all his posts in the selections forum for evidence?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Well there are several ways around it. One could "pick up" losing tickets at a racetrack. Two things about this. 1. The tickets you pick up, need to be checked for time-stamping. You dont want to have tickets that have nearly identical time stamps as you cant be in two places at once. 2. Try to find tickets that are clean. If it looks like people have stepped on them, or put a cigarette out on them, it wont work. You can do this for however many losers you need. Just make sure you pick them up on several diffrent days..

Your suggestion does not help someone who takes the standard deduction on his/her taxes, which is probably most people who don't have a mortgage.

--Dunbar

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by South Beach Luv

I wonder if somebody like sdjcom could just print out all his posts in the selections forum for evidence?

I laughed

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Your suggestion does not help someone who takes the standard deduction on his/her taxes, which is probably most people who don't have a mortgage.

--Dunbar

i have a mortgage and am still better off with standard deductions...

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Even for the IRS, that's crazy...I've never written a wager down in a program in my life. Well..maybe once, but still...

Couldn't tell you the last time I even bought a program. My racing forms get recycled (printed on both sides) and when the races are over, they get tossed. Any scribblings on them would be incomprehensable to an IRS agent. I would have to rent a storage space to keep them for audit possibilities.

[skippy3481]

As long as you have tickets, the IRS is not going to bother you. They can ask for programs all they want, but the burden is on them to prove that those tickets are not mine and in my experience they really dont give a damn. As long as nothing looks real sketchy, they are not going to do the legwork required to even attempt to verify the tickets.

Dunbar,
I dont have a mortage and i still itemize. It all depends on what your doing with your money. Lot of ways to get deductions now a days. You are correct though if your taking the standard deduction there is nothing you can do. In that case the government is giving u a bigger deduction then you could normally get so your already getting some tax benefits out of it.

The worst part is that "signers" are above the line, that is they effect your adjusted gross income and a lot of credits are based on your AGI... so even though you can offset wins with itemizing, you can lose out on other items where you would have qualified such as the child tax credit, college tuition costs, and exemption allowances.

It is total BS that even though you have equal losses to offset wins, your wins are added to your AGI, then your tax credits are based on your AGI, and then you take your standard (or itemized) deduction. Only way to get around that is claim professional gambler status that Dunbar mentioned.

So not only are you getting f'd by the racetrack with 25% takeout on exotics, then the IRS gives it to you if you lucky enough to hit a few signers.

Dunbar mentioned it but you get really royally screwed if you were taking the standard deduction to begin with.

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by SundaySilence

The worst part is that "signers" are above the line, that is they effect your adjusted gross income and a lot of credits are based on your AGI... so even though you can offset wins with itemizing, you can lose out on other items where you would have qualified such as the child tax credit, college tuition costs, and exemption allowances.

It is total BS that even though you have equal losses to offset wins, your wins are added to your AGI, then your tax credits are based on your AGI, and then you take your standard (or itemized) deduction. Only way to get around that is claim professional gambler status that Dunbar mentioned.

So not only are you getting f'd by the racetrack with 25% takeout on exotics, then the IRS gives it to you if you lucky enough to hit a few signers.

Dunbar mentioned it but you get really royally screwed if you were taking the standard deduction to begin with.

You hit the nail on the head, total BS. I lost the child tax credit this year, even though I was able to offset my winnings.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by SundaySilence

The worst part is that "signers" are above the line, that is they effect your adjusted gross income and a lot of credits are based on your AGI... so even though you can offset wins with itemizing, you can lose out on other items where you would have qualified such as the child tax credit, college tuition costs, and exemption allowances.

It is total BS that even though you have equal losses to offset wins, your wins are added to your AGI, then your tax credits are based on your AGI, and then you take your standard (or itemized) deduction. Only way to get around that is claim professional gambler status that Dunbar mentioned.

So not only are you getting f'd by the racetrack with 25% takeout on exotics, then the IRS gives it to you if you lucky enough to hit a few signers.

Dunbar mentioned it but you get really royally screwed if you were taking the standard deduction to begin with.

Right. The effect on AGI penalizes even those who ARE able to deduct losses by itemizing.

Filing as a pro gets around those problems but creates other issues. The self-employment tax comes into play, and that will add as much as another 14% of your net profit from gambling to your tax bill. If someone is already itemizing, filing as a pro is better only if expenses exceed some threshold amount that depends on tax bracket and how close the taxpayer's income is to the social security max.

And there are state and local income tax issues, too. Some states flat out prohibit deducting gambling losses from wins. And some states make filing as a professional gambler even harder than the IRS does.

No one is in a rush to give a gambler a tax break.

--Dunbar