Talamo

[JJP]

Have you ever noticed when Durkin or another announcer proclaim, "so and so is trapped behind a wall of horses" that they often end up winning? These horses see the traffic in front of them and wait; they aren't being checked by the rider. Invariably, a hole does open up and then they accelerate.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I wouldn't even put it that way. I don't think she was ever very good.

i don't either. but she was good enough at the right time to win a big race, and get her original owner a nice chunk of money. precocity doesn't equal GOOD, i never thought she was what some made her out to be.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I prefer a jockey with a long record of good rides in pressure situations - you can have all the 19 yo's you want who made a big name for themselves by losing at double the takeout from over 300 dirt mounts at FG.

I guess if I didn't have some mix of $20 and $5 future book exactas at fixed odds with IWR over QR, IC, OF, WSB, field and Patena ... I wouldn't much care who rides him.

That's fine, but you made this about today's ride, and I don't see what he did wrong. To the contrary, I thought he showed poise that's rare when a jockey gets left at the gate, then into traffic. Maybe that's because the horse already had the earnings and he had nothing to lose, but it was a slick ride regardless.

[blackthroatedwind]

How could Talamo lose the ride after today? That's ridiculous.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

How could Talamo lose the ride after today? That's ridiculous.

The owners realize that there are many better available options?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Rode an overrated horse

Exactly

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The owners realize that there are many better available options?

After spending the afternoon watching racing from all corners of the country....not many better options. Maybe Tony Farina?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The owners realize that there are many better available options?

Thankfully the world doesn't always work that way.

I would love to know, however, how Stewart Elliot was chosen for West Side Bernie ( not that he should have won ) while Ramon was left sitting in the room.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The owners realize that there are many better available options?

LOL. "Wanting" another jock because you have a vested interest is certainly understandable, but suggesting validity that he actually lose the mount because of today's ride? Come on. Maybe your emotions are preventing you from seeing how good, all things considered, of a ride he actually gave that horse today.

IEAH could be enigmatic, and I don't know if the original deal -- where Lanzman controls the horse -- still stands. His ROI at FG is irrelevant.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Thankfully the world doesn't always work that way.

I would love to know, however, how Stewart Elliot was chosen for West Side Bernie ( not that he should have won ) while Ramon was left sitting in the room.

I think the last year Kelly had a public stable (at Monmouth) he was using Stewart. I was using him on a horse at Monmouth and I think I remember him getting some action from Kelly when Bravo started riding a lot for Levine. In reality, I would think they had no idea Ramon would be open when they gave Stewart the call. They also might have been thinking about the next race as well. Who knows.

Eric

[ArlJim78]

i don't see why they would rock the boat at this point, they would have to be nuts to switch riders on IWR for the derby, no matter who is available. One of his strengths is patience, like we saw today, and that is a good thing to have in the derby.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

After spending the afternoon watching racing from all corners of the country....not many better options. Maybe Tony Farina?

Rosario has ridden just as long as Talamo has in America. Here's Rosario's yearly stats with dirt/syn track runners.

2006: 28-for-201 $2.57 ROI
2007: 128-for-841 $2.05 ROI
2008: 153-for-993 $2.13 ROI
2009: 54-for-328 $2.03 ROI

Career totals: 363-for-2,363 $2.13 ROI

And did they not just take Russel Baze off of Chocolate Candy - even though he had been winning on him - so Rosario could ride him in the SA Derby? Even though CC didn't win the SA Derby ... why not take any slight edge you can get?

Victor Espinoza has ridden in almost 5,300 route races since '98 - he shows a flat bet profit over those 5,300 races - he's won the Kentucky Derby before - he's the most physically gifted jockey of all-time. I'd rather have him than a 19yo who gets hailed as a great future star because he losses double the takeout at the FG - and actually gets praised for his Wood ride after IWR broke like an import with Jamie Spencer on him.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I prefer a jockey with a long record of good rides in pressure situations - you can have all the 19 yo's you want who made a big name for themselves by losing

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

at double the takeout from over 300 dirt mounts at FG.

I guess if I didn't have some mix of $20 and $5 future book exactas at fixed odds with IWR over QR, IC, OF, WSB, field and Patena ... I wouldn't much care who rides him.

ask shug how he felt having the most expeinced jock and the best horse and losing 2/3 of the TC to a inferior horse

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

i don't see why they would rock the boat at this point, they would have to be nuts to switch riders on IWR for the derby, no matter who is available. One of his strengths is patience, like we saw today, and that is a good thing to have in the derby.

I thought the horse ran huge today. Talamo also did a great job not panicking either and put the horse in a position where he could win. But I also think that he didn't have any pressure on him either. IWR's ticket was already punched for Kentucky and Talamo was able to just sit back and relax and see how the race unfolded. I wonder if he would have ridden any different if they went in to the race know that they needed to win it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by gales0678

ask shug how he felt having the most expeinced jock and the best horse and losing 2/3 of the TC to a inferior horse

Sunday Silence was clearly the best horse in the Derby.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Sunday Silence was clearly the best horse in the Derby.

patience by the rider cost easy goer the derby and Talmo could only have done better than the hall of famer in the preakness , easy goer never should have lost in baltimore

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Sunday Silence was much the best in the Derby.

Easy Goer was lucky to even beat his stablemate and it had nothing to do with Day's ride. It may have had something to do with a wet Churchill track EG struggled with the year prior.

Pat Day did ride mediocre races aboard EG in the Preakness and BC Classic I felt.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Sunday Silence was much the best in the Derby.

Easy Goer was lucky to even beat his stablemate and it had nothing to do with Day's ride. It may have had something to do with a wet Churchill track EG struggled with the year prior.

Pat Day did ride mediocre races aboard EG in the Preakness and BC Classic I felt.

medicore is being generous , he flat out blew the middle jewel on the better horse

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I wouldn't disagree with that.

However, there is no way you could pin the Derby loss on Day.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would love to know, however, how Stewart Elliot was chosen for West Side Bernie ( not that he should have won ) while Ramon was left sitting in the room.

Great point!

I was wondering the same thing.

WSB's previous dirt route at GP was pretty damn sneaky good actually...and I think I remember you saying so much.