Now I Have Zero Respect Left for Shirreffs - Page 2

King Glorious · #21 10-27-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think that statement is very debatable and thus why it will be a close vote, that in the end Curlin will win, for various reasons that are not as clear as one would imagine.

It is debatable, I agree. Like I said, I feel like she's a better horse than Curlin is. But she compiled a record beating up on the same stiffs over and over again on courses that she obviously loves. It was great that she ventured out and took the Apple Blossom but that wasn't enough to offset what Curlin did. I hate giving it to Curlin because I don't think he's as good as her or even as good as he was last year. But to venture to Dubai, run in Kentucky, run at Saratoga, run at Belmont, and then even though his trainer wasn't comfortable doing it and could have stayed home and clinched HOY, they came out to California to try it. When Big Brown retired, Curlin had it clinched but he didn't take the back door in. They tried to cement it. Zenyatta shouldn't win the award ONLY because Curlin lost it and especially if she wasn't the one that beat him.

Cannon Shell · #22 10-27-2008, 06:03 PM

Can someone explain to me why either is more deserving than Big Brown?

SCUDSBROTHER · #23 10-27-2008, 06:04 PM

That was a pretty big field in the Classic. She hasn't been facing that many horses in her races. I think that would of concerned me more than the quality of the field.

Cannon Shell · #24 10-27-2008, 06:07 PM

Curlins year -1st Stepher Foster /1st Woodward/ 1st Gold Cup/ 2nd Man o War/4th BC Classic
Zenyatta - 1st a bunch of synthetic races against pretty pathetic competition/ 1st apple Blossom/ 1st BC Distaff

BB- 1st FL Derby/1st KY Derby/ 1st Preakness/ 1st Haskell/1st made up turf stake

he should be in the discussion

Hickory Hill Hoff · #25 10-27-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Curlins year -1st Stepher Foster /1st Woodward/ 1st Gold Cup/ 2nd Man o War/4th BC Classic
Zenyatta - 1st a bunch of synthetic races against pretty pathetic competition/ 1st apple Blossom/ 1st BC Distaff

BB- 1st FL Derby/1st KY Derby/ 1st Preakness/ 1st Haskell/1st made up turf stake

he should be in the discussion

Are you serious? Worst three year old crop in years and minor stake runners on the grass? It must be his connections.

Cannon Shell · #26 10-27-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Are you serious? Worst three year old crop in years and minor stake runners on the grass? It must be his connections.

Look who Curlin and Zenyetta beat and tell me if I should be serious.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #27 10-27-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Look who Curlin and Zenyetta beat and tell me if I should be serious.

And just who did Big Brown beat?

SCUDSBROTHER · #28 10-27-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

And just who did Big Brown beat?

3 year olds, and the cashier at Goodwill.

Cannon Shell · #29 10-27-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

And just who did Big Brown beat?

Curlin proved he was a length better than Past the Point and wandering boy and a few better than Einstein on the dirt. Those are probably the weakest editions of those races in years. Zenyatta beat nobodies all year except at Oaklawn and the Distaff. Big browns crop wasnt good but he won 2/3rds of the TC pretty handily, easily won the FL derby , was not impressive despite winning the Haskell and beat older horses on a second surface. As a matter of fact I dont think one of Curlins foes on the Dirt all year showed up in a BC race.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #30 10-27-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Curlin proved he was a length better than Past the Point and wandering boy and a few better than Einstein on the dirt. Those are probably the weakest editions of those races in years. Zenyatta beat nobodies all year except at Oaklawn and the Distaff. Big browns crop wasnt good but he won 2/3rds of the TC pretty handily, easily won the FL derby , was not impressive despite winning the Haskell and beat older horses on a second surface. As a matter of fact I dont think one of Curlins foes on the Dirt all year showed up in a BC race.

Curlin did win the World Cup & Foster.....I guess it's BB's Belmont that still bothers me.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #31 10-27-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

3 year olds, and the cashier at Goodwill.

LOL!

Danzig · #32 10-27-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Curlins year -1st Stepher Foster /1st Woodward/ 1st Gold Cup/ 2nd Man o War/4th BC Classic
Zenyatta - 1st a bunch of synthetic races against pretty pathetic competition/ 1st apple Blossom/ 1st BC Distaff

BB- 1st FL Derby/1st KY Derby/ 1st Preakness/ 1st Haskell/1st made up turf stake

he should be in the discussion

i agree, he should. i think both curlin and big brown should be considered ahead of zenyatta. neither big brown nor curlin played it safe, and both had a very good year-a good enough year to get hoy. she didn't do anything special really. hell, if you just want to go with beating fillies and winning out, then i guess one could also throw pepper's pride into the mix, right? ok, i'm not really serious with that...but zenyatta didn't do anything outside of restricted company, and only shipped once. curlin went to dubai and back, big brown won the fla derby and ky derby from what was felt to be an impossible spot, and did it with ease. curlin attempted three surfaces, big brown attempted turf, simultaneously vs older, and won.
it's not a gimme for zenyatta at all. i think she should be considered, but in the end i think one of the other two deserves it more.

blackthroatedwind · #33 10-27-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Curlin proved he was a length better than Past the Point and wandering boy and a few better than Einstein on the dirt. Those are probably the weakest editions of those races in years. Zenyatta beat nobodies all year except at Oaklawn and the Distaff. Big browns crop wasnt good but he won 2/3rds of the TC pretty handily, easily won the FL derby , was not impressive despite winning the Haskell and beat older horses on a second surface. As a matter of fact I dont think one of Curlins foes on the Dirt all year showed up in a BC race.

Well Armed.

Big Brown's foe in his big turf win at Monmouth ran a very poor third at even moneyish in a G3 Turf Stake at Belmont Saturday. His Haskell foe, Coal Play, got drowned in the G3 Pegusus Friday night at the Meadowlands.

Cannon Shell · #34 10-27-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Curlin did win the World Cup & Foster.....I guess it's BB's Belmont that still bothers me.

The World Cup isnt a North American race
The Foster was a joke

10 pnt move up · #35 10-27-2008, 06:36 PM

Does anyone really think the east coast media, which represents the largest segment of voting, is going to vote for a horse who did most of their running on synthetics------even if they thought she should get it? If they did it would be a vote of support of the surface, the west coast Breeders Cup, and I highly doubt it would go over very well with their constituents.

#36 10-27-2008, 06:36 PM

It wasn't much of a year for North American racing. It's like winning Most Popular in a Home School.

Cannon Shell · #37 10-27-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well Armed.

Big Brown's foe in his big turf win at Monmouth ran a very poor third at even moneyish in a G3 Turf Stake at Belmont Saturday. His Haskell foe, Coal Play, got drowned in the G3 Pegusus Friday night at the Meadowlands.

I am not saying he is an outstanding choice but Curlins campaign has hardly been great and Zenyatta beat only fillies. You may not agree he should win but it is pretty hard to keep him from being in the discussion.

blackthroatedwind · #38 10-27-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Does anyone really think the east coast media, which represents the largest segment of voting, is going to vote for a horse who did most of their running on synthetics------even if they thought she should get it? If they did it would be a vote of support of the surface, the west coast Breeders Cup, and I highly doubt it would go over very well with their constituents.

I hope your paranoia doesn't go so far as to actually believe this. If nothing else, your giving the voters way too much credit.

How come nobody on the East Coast has a East Coast/West Coast bias paranoia?

blackthroatedwind · #39 10-27-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am not saying he is an outstanding choice but Curlins campaign has hardly been great and Zenyatta beat only fillies. You may not agree he should win but it is pretty hard to keep him from being in the discussion.

Of course he belongs in the conversation and making an argument for him isn't hard.

I couldn't care less who wins HOY. I am concerned with who wins horse races in the future.....not awards.

Cannon Shell · #40 10-27-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I hope your paranoia doesn't go so far as to actually believe this. If nothing else, your giving the voters way too much credit.

How come nobody on the East Coast has a East Coast/West Coast bias paranoia?

seriously who the hell even makes up the racing media anymore? Virtually no newspapers have a horseracing person and it is hard to believe that a trade mag or paper writer would be biased toward any coast. Though Ray Paulick and gary west are extremely biased towards a certain horse and its connections