Obama - good for Americans

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by steve

bringing american boys and girls home from Iraq for starters

I thought he said he would move them from Iraq and sent them to Afghanistan. I don't think he plans on bringing them home.

[Mike]

Thank you Dalakhani

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, thought out response time after an exciting day with the niffle. Before I start your chargers better come through.

So called "independants" that want to be "convinced" really arent going to be "convinced" at this stage of the game. You arent going to be convinced Geeker. You finally realize that Obama being President is inevitable thats all.

So what do i think he will do that is good for America? Okay:

1. He will be a good representative to the international community:

Obama is a thoughtful and eloquent speaker and he carries himself like a president should. The current president's foreign policy has been a failure and its to a point where America is losing its place in the world. i think Obama can help get us there. I think he wants to rebuild some fractured relationships. I think he wants to see if we can negotiate a peace with some of our enemies. This John Wayne style of foreign policy doesnt work. I think Obama's way will be good for us.

2. Tax Policy that helps the middle class:

Tax breaks to the people who need it. Build America up from the middle instead of using this Trickle down, supply side theory that has proven to be an utter failure. If anyone wants to debate this we can any day. This will be good for us all, even the rich that are being taxed more.

3. End this war in Iraq:

It was a mistake in 2003 and it is still is. One of the reasons that we are in this economic mess is because of the financial strain of the war (another discussion). Too many have died and its time to get our soldiers OUT. This will be good for all of us.



Do you want more?

1. I'm stunned that you actually believe this. Negotiate with our enemies?
2. I'm sure all the people that benefited from the growth in our ecomomy the last 25 years, you know the people that made money in their retirement accounts on the growth of the stockmarket, would beg to differ. You surely forgot the wonderful economy that Mr Carter left us with with. You also seem to ignore our place in the worlds ecomony and the growth that our ecnomy has spurred worledwide. Funny how when our economy tanks, everybody else does too. Yet when other economic powers like Japan's economy tanked the rest of the world kept churning along. Everyone is in a anic right now but we are still way better off than we are during the Carter administration9not that old jimmy should take all the blame)
3. It is really not that simple.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

yeah, negotiate with our enemies. Is that so unheard of? At one time, china was an enemy. So was Russia. What do we have to lose by sitting down?

2. Supply side economics. What do you think is going on right now? Do you think that this is just the unwinding of the housing bubble or do you think this might be the unwinding of a 25 year credit bubble. Think about that.

I hate to inform you of this but Russia is still our enemy. Maybe we are not at cold war status but they aint our friend. The problem with this theory is that in negotiations you have to give and take and what exactly does Iran or North Korea or radical Islam as a whole have to offer us? They will ask for things that we dont want to or shouldnt do like give them weapons, money, both or worse, credability.

Like Obama is going to call Iran and tell them " Hey dude, dont nuke us, I am lot cooler than that Bush guy. here is a few billion to use at your discretion" and they will love us? The easiest way to maintain power is to have a primary enemy for your population that you can blame for your own shortcomings. We are that excuse. Why would they want to lose that edge? Because Obama has a nice personality?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

Like I said yesterday, neither Obama or McCain is very good, unfortunately they are all we have.

[dalakhani]

[quote=Cannon Shell]?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

QUOTE]

Socialism isnt the opposite of supply side. Its keynesian economics.

Supply side economics has devastated the middle class. its created a system where wages have all but flattened in relationship to growth since 1980.

Where did all of these wonderful tax cuts go? Are you aware of what the deficit has done since the onset of supply side? ARe you aware of the degree to which the disparity between rich and poor has grown?

And Whose backs has the economy grown on? The backs of the workers who have seen the smallest increase in wages (inflation adjusted) during any other time in our history.

What was the deficit in 1980? What is the deficit now?

The "growth" was partly an illusion. We became an economy based mainly on credit, not the production of goods and services.

[Danzig]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

QUOTE]

Socialism isnt the opposite of supply side. Its keynesian economics.

Supply side economics has devastated the middle class. its created a system where wages have all but flattened in relationship to growth since 1980.

Where did all of these wonderful tax cuts go? Are you aware of what the deficit has done since the onset of supply side? ARe you aware of the degree to which the disparity between rich and poor has grown?

And Whose backs has the economy grown on? The backs of the workers who have seen the smallest increase in wages (inflation adjusted) during any other time in our history.

What was the deficit in 1980? What is the deficit now?

The "growth" was partly an illusion. We became an economy based mainly on credit, not the production of goods and services.

remind me again how obama is going to take care of that pesky deficit? how he'll balance the budget? oh, that's right...not in the works in either candidates plan.

also, isn't obama proposing tax increases on corporations and small business? how will that help most americans, since most of us either run, or work for a corporation/small business? isn't anything that harms business also going to harm employees?

also, since obama said he's going to hold off on cap gains tax increases due to the economy, doesn't that also put a hold on his tax cuts to the middle class?

[dalakhani]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

remind me again how obama is going to take care of that pesky deficit? how he'll balance the budget? oh, that's right...not in the works in either candidates plan.

also, isn't obama proposing tax increases on corporations and small business? how will that help most americans, since most of us either run, or work for a corporation/small business? isn't anything that harms business also going to harm employees?

also, since obama said he's going to hold off on cap gains tax increases due to the economy, doesn't that also put a hold on his tax cuts to the middle class?

People act like large corporations actually pass on profits and tax relief. I got news...they dont. Stats back this up.

As for small business, the overwheming majority of small business owners make less than 250k so there will be no tax increase.

[zippyneedsawin]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

remind me again how obama is going to take care of that pesky deficit? how he'll balance the budget? oh, that's right...not in the works in either candidates plan.

also, isn't obama proposing tax increases on corporations and small business? how will that help most americans, since most of us either run, or work for a corporation/small business? isn't anything that harms business also going to harm employees?

also, since obama said he's going to hold off on cap gains tax increases due to the economy, doesn't that also put a hold on his tax cuts to the middle class?

Here's what I don't get. Don't Republicans believe in less government involvement and less government spending (thereby reducing taxes)?
Then, why is it that when the last two Republican Presidents got into office the national debt skyrocketed? This isn't a slam against Bush and Reagan as much as it just a question. Is the answer simply Cold War spending(Reagan) and 9/11, Iraq, economy(Bush) ?

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

QUOTE]


Supply side economics has devastated the middle class. its created a system where wages have all but flattened in relationship to growth since 1980.

Where did all of these wonderful tax cuts go? Are you aware of what the deficit has done since the onset of supply side? ARe you aware of the degree to which the disparity between rich and poor has grown?

And Whose backs has the economy grown on? The backs of the workers who have seen the smallest increase in wages (inflation adjusted) during any other time in our history.

What was the deficit in 1980? What is the deficit now?

The "growth" was partly an illusion. We became an economy based mainly on credit, not the production of goods and services.

You argue the middle class is being abused yet you make the point of Rich and Poor? Shouldnt the middle class be included in there somewhere? What about the people in the middle class that have invested and made money that was not available to them befoe the growth of economy? What about the growth of high paying jobs that are created by a growing ecomomy? What about the rest of the world who benefited from our model and growth? It is such a multifaceted dynamic that it cant be properly debated here. The idea that american workers are somehow underprivilged is laughable. Compared to who?

[dalakhani]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You argue the middle class is being abused yet you make the point of Rich and Poor? Shouldnt the middle class be included in there somewhere? What about the people in the middle class that have invested and made money that was not available to them befoe the growth of economy? What about the growth of high paying jobs that are created by a growing ecomomy? What about the rest of the world who benefited from our model and growth? It is such a multifaceted dynamic that it cant be properly debated here. The idea that american workers are somehow underprivilged is laughable. Compared to who?

We werent talking about the rest of the world, we were talking about the US.

You use the term "invested and made money" and "middle class" in the same sentence. The middle class hasnt had much to invest. Look at what wages have done in relation to inflation and growth.

I have posted the numbers before would you like me to do it again?

[Mortimer]

That's it??

Only 3 after all that thought?




And THOSE 3??















Jinxing Coaches picks may be more your thing...honest.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

That's it??

Only 3 after all that thought?




And THOSE 3??















Jinxing Coaches picks may be more your thing...honest.

I love you mort. You ever heard of obama girl? If you were ever to run, I would be mortimer girl!

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I love you mort. You ever heard of obama girl? If you were ever to run, I would be mortimer girl!

Oh my God.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Oh my God.

More like Morty's Chick with a dick.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

More like Morty's Chick with a dick.

Listen, i really dont feel like going back and forth with you. You are gay and in erie. I am happy for you.

Go find someone to talk about Moss with. The grown ups arre talking now.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

More like Morty's Chick with a dick.

If I ever find out this is true I will stick your entire worthless body into Hossy's zipper.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, thought out response time after an exciting day with the niffle. Before I start your chargers better come through.

So called "independants" that want to be "convinced" really arent going to be "convinced" at this stage of the game. You arent going to be convinced Geeker. You finally realize that Obama being President is inevitable thats all.

So what do i think he will do that is good for America? Okay:

1. He will be a good representative to the international community:

Obama is a thoughtful and eloquent speaker and he carries himself like a president should. The current president's foreign policy has been a failure and its to a point where America is losing its place in the world. i think Obama can help get us there. I think he wants to rebuild some fractured relationships. I think he wants to see if we can negotiate a peace with some of our enemies. This John Wayne style of foreign policy doesnt work. I think Obama's way will be good for us.

2. Tax Policy that helps the middle class:

Tax breaks to the people who need it. Build America up from the middle instead of using this Trickle down, supply side theory that has proven to be an utter failure. If anyone wants to debate this we can any day. This will be good for us all, even the rich that are being taxed more.

3. End this war in Iraq:

It was a mistake in 2003 and it is still is. One of the reasons that we are in this economic mess is because of the financial strain of the war (another discussion). Too many have died and its time to get our soldiers OUT. This will be good for all of us.

Do you want more?

Thanks!

1. OK I can see that - he does have a good presence about him.

2. How much do we get? I keep hearing that 40% of the people don't pay taxes and they will get checks - if this is true it really pi$$es me off...where the hell is this money coming from? I guess if he gives it to the people that pay no taxes some if it comes from me!

3. He says he will withdraw from Iraq but will send them to Afghanistan. Like it or not I don't think you can just withdraw from Iraq and not make a total mess in the region....or maybe you can just say fucl< it and walk away.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Thanks!

1. OK I can see that - he does have a good presence about him.

2. How much do we get? I keep hearing that 40% of the people don't pay taxes and they will get checks - if this is true it really pi$$es me off...where the hell is this money coming from? I guess if he gives it to the people that pay no taxes some if it comes from me!

3. He says he will withdraw from Iraq but will send them to Afghanistan. Like it or not I don't think you can just withdraw from Iraq and not make a total mess in the region....or maybe you can just say fucl< it and walk away.

2. I think his plan is to get the money from the wealthy and from corporations by increasing their taxes.

3. I am actually torn on this myself Geeker. I dont think that they are ALL supposed to go to Afghanistan. Either way though, the plan is a phase by phase withdrawl that will be completed in 16 months. The region is already a total mess but I, too, have apprehensions about what will become of the oil supply, er, people in the region.

[miraja2]

The problem with saying this candidate will do 1, 2, and 3 while the other guy will do A, B, and C is that there is no way of knowing what they will be able to accomplish when they get in there. That is pretty much always true in presidential elections, but it is particularly true this time when neither guy can have any real idea just how miserable the economy is going to be when he takes over. They both propose various tax policies and spending initiatives that will most likely need to be dramatically changed no matter who wins.

I don't vote for people because of specific policy promises they make because circumstances will almost always change them. However, I also don't vote for people based on their personality. I am looking for a general governing philosophy. I believe that health care is a right, and that the current system needs to be significantly overhauled. I believe the Bush tax cuts for the rich should be eliminated. I believe the U.S. should not only get out of Iraq, but should refrain from other unwarrented preemptive invasions. I believe Supreme Court justices should protect a woman's right to choose. etc. etc.
In general, Obama's philosophy/ideology matches up with mine, so I'm voting for him. That doesn't mean that all of his specific proposals are going to get done, and there is no way of knowing what exactly his presidency will "do" for the American people. I think that if he wins, some of the stuff he wants to get done probably will happen, and some of it won't. That is just reality.