Cards at Saratoga

[Linny]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I've only taken a brief look at Saturday's card but I thought it was fantastic. Full fields, a few "stakes" races. What more do you want?

A stakes race on a Sat might be nice...

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Linny

A stakes race on a Sat might be nice...

At least you get to see horses who have competed in some really nice Graded Stakes in Magna Graduate, Sam P and Fairbanks.

And race 4 isnt bad. Callmetony is a nice one as are Noonmark and Most Distinguished.

Trying to see the glass as half full

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sdjcom

if you want full fields, the money is green at mountaineer racetrack. don't look fractional or final times, names of horses or jockeys, and you can't tell if it's a stakes race or 5,000 nw2

goodness knows no one would tell the difference between 'toga and mountaineer.

[TheSpyder]

Don't mind the 2YO races but where is the super star that wins by 10 lengths we usually see? Most of the standouts coming in with buzz have standed down when it came to racing.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Gander

At least you get to see horses who have competed in some really nice Graded Stakes in Magna Graduate, Sam P and Fairbanks.

And race 4 isnt bad. Callmetony is a nice one as are Noonmark and Most Distinguished.

Trying to see the glass as half full

At the risk of seeming argumentative, which honestly, I am not...

It's SATURDAY and a graded race seems appropriate. Most Distinguished and Noonmark, Callmetony and Fairbanks are nice horses but if they were truly "graded stakes horses" right now, they'd have been in the Vanderbilt or the Whitney or pointing for the Forego or Woodward.

Accepting the fact theat they are G3 not G1 then an overnight race is fine at the Spa, but why a Saturday? Any of the "stakes" today would be fine additions to a weekday card or as supporting races for a Saturday.

Why move the Sword Dancer (which should be made a G1 MILE) anyhow? It's not like running it a week after the Arlington Million is going to alter is complexion.

Just like the daily overnight races, Saratoga is dumbing down it's stakes program. Once, if you had $16k claimers you sent them to Monmouth or rested them for the duration of the Saratoga meet. Now you bring them and their races fill. Similarly, you used to look at the very tough stakes schedule at SAR and find allowances or out of town (lesser) stakes. Now you bring them and they write races for you and call the $100k stakes.

[Gander]

I think it worked out great having 2 Grade 1's on the same Saturday. It will be a nice way to kick off the real meet. These first 3 weeks have been an utter mess. I dont think the Sword Dancer would have saved this past Saturday. Think of how green the grass will be and it should be firm by then as Friday and Saturday look great weatherwise.

If Music Note runs in the Alabama, she'll be 2/5, so we'll need a race like the Sword Dancer to provide a competitive betting puzzle.

Is Proud Spell going to run also?

Sword Dancer looks to be a rematch of the Man O War with Red Rock, Better Talk Now and Grand Courterier.

Keep hope alive. Saturday is an eternity away in meteorology land.

[TheSpyder]

I think the rest of the meet has the potential to be great with some good weather. There's so many horses that want to get in one or two races it should be full as well as quality.

Anyone here Steve say they may run the last Tuesday (26th) to make up races? Bonus Day!

Spyder

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

I think the rest of the meet has the potential to be great with some good weather. There's so many horses that want to get in one or two races it should be full as well as quality.

Anyone here Steve say they may run the last Tuesday (26th) to make up races? Bonus Day!

Spyder

That would be a colossal mistake. The horse population is already going to be beat up by running 10-11 race cards as NYRA has been doing to artificially prevent the numbers from being not as dismal. Running 13 straight days would probably result in several brutal cards from a quality perspective, and God knows what it would do to the early part of the Belmont fall meet.

[the_fat_man]

Absolutely BRUTALLY MISMANAGED meet --- at just about every level. And this has nothing to do with the weather.

I'm ahead here, and I was ahead at GP last winter. But I'd never focus on GP again and the same applies to SAR. There are much better OFF track options than SAR.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Gander

If Music Note runs in the Alabama, she'll be 2/5, so we'll need a race like the Sword Dancer to provide a competitive betting puzzle.

Is Proud Spell going to run also?

Last I heard, she was. Which would make Music Note much higher than 2/5.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Absolutely BRUTALLY MISMANAGED meet --- at just about every level. And this has nothing to do with the weather.

I'm ahead here, and I was ahead at GP last winter. But I'd never focus on GP again and the same applies to SAR. There are much better OFF track options than SAR.

What has been done wrong other than the horrifically bad weather?

[Gander]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Last I heard, she was. Which would make Music Note much higher than 2/5.

If they both run, maybe 4/5 and 7/5?

If one runs, that horse will be 2/5.

We need a good match race right about now. Would be a great thing to see to perk up moods around here. Combine that with a sunny day (no humidity) and a wide open Sword Dancer, and this could be the start of something really good leading us to the Personal Ensign, Travers and Ballerina weekend, then ending with the Woodward and Forego, salvaging what would be a good meet.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by philcski

What has been done wrong other than the horrifically bad weather?

Seems like they added more time between races, in addition to adding a race a day. I get the reason why (to buy more food & beer) but I dont think its really right. Its more annoying than anything else, especially with the fluff that has been added to the cards. You may like something in the 4th, and the 5th through 7th will be garbage, so you are sitting around for 2 hours.

Anyone try "Restaurants Row"? I havent but have heard pretty good reviews.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Gander

Seems like they added more time between races, in addition to adding a race a day. I get the reason why (to buy more food & beer) but I dont think its really right. Its more annoying than anything else, especially with the fluff that has been added to the cards. You may like something in the 4th, and the 5th through 7th will be garbage, so you are sitting around for 2 hours.

Anyone try "Restaurants Row"? I havent but have heard pretty good reviews.

I could think of worse things to do than stick it out on a Saturday afternoon through 11 races.

The restaurant row I think was a good addition this year, it's nice to have options. I usually pack snacks myself, but it was nice to be able to grab a warm turkey sandwich with melted brie. It was pretty good.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Last I heard, she was. Which would make Music Note much higher than 2/5.

Won't they couple Little Belle and Music Note despite having different owners and trainers? Won't be 2/5 but that will lower the odds further and make the race even more unplayable especially if you don't like Little Belle.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

What has been done wrong other than the horrifically bad weather?

What's wrong is that MUCHO time of handicappers (particularly those focusing almost exclusively on turf) has been wasted with all the OFF the TURF races. This would be excusable IF there were only ONE turf course. As there are TWO turf courses, NYRA needs to shelve the old way of doing things and sacrifice one of those courses for wet days. It's not like they'll need BOTH turf courses for the entire year. Same applies to BEL.

And, the distance incentive has been a BUST, IMO. Do we really need $70k maiden route races? How about we use that EXTRA cash in writing some BETTER races for BETTER horses. Seems to me, the quality of horses is down this year as there are other options for them (at comparable purses).

While the quality of the fields doesn't really affect my handicapping, as I know the turf horses well and I've pretty much accepted that there just won't be as many quality turf races in NY anymore, I do, every so often, want to see a nice competitive turf race. If I wanted CLAIMERS, I'd focus on DEL, CNL, Maryland, and (in a lesser sense) AP and MTH.

I realize that SAR offers a nice ON TRACK experience. For the OFF track player, however, it's very much an ordinary (even subpar) one.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

What's wrong is that MUCHO time of handicappers (particularly those focusing almost exclusively on turf) has been wasted with all the OFF the TURF races. This would be excusable IF there were only ONE turf course. As there are TWO turf courses, NYRA needs to shelve the old way of doing things and sacrifice one of those courses for wet days. It's not like they'll need BOTH turf courses for the entire year. Same applies to BEL.

And, the distance incentive has been a BUST, IMO. Do we really need $70k maiden route races? How about we use that EXTRA cash in writing some BETTER races for BETTER horses. Seems to me, the quality of horses is down this year as there are other options for them (at comparable purses).

While the quality of the fields doesn't really affect my handicapping, as I know the turf horses well and I've pretty much accepted that there just won't be as many quality turf races in NY anymore, I do, every so often, want to see a nice competitive turf race. If I wanted CLAIMERS, I'd focus on DEL, CNL, Maryland, and (in a lesser sense) AP and MTH.

I realize that SAR offers a nice ON TRACK experience. For the OFF track player, however, it's very much an ordinary (even subpar) one.

Where are there better horses?

[blackthroatedwind]

Sacrifice one of the courses in bad weather?

Come on, you're smarter than that. Honestly.

[Linny]

The problem is that the better races DONT FILL. The trainers want to run their allowance stock every 6 weeks so those races don't go.
The additional money in overnight races has hurt the stakes program though. A filly like Nehantic Cat is through her NY bred conditions yet instead of going in the Yaddo against multiple stakes winners, Tagg had the option to run for and $85k purse on Wed against NW1x fillies. Purse for Yaddo against filies like Rewrite, $100K or $60k to winner, before expenses. Purse for allowance $85k or $51k. I know $9k is alot of money but for the difference in the expected quality of the fields, it's a no brainer, especially after paying trainer/rider fees etc.
PJ is giving trainers too many options. Why card a 9f "overnight" stakes 30 minutes before the Jim Dandy with the same conditions as the G2? In the example above, if the allowance that Nehantic Cat won had a $50k purse, she might have gone for the stakes.
A few months ago he carded an overnight sprint for NYB fillies with a $85k purse. The following day was an open overnight for fillies with the same purse. The open race didn't fill. Why not just card the open and force the trainers of good NYB's to run in it. Instead they got a short field of NYB mares. Makes no sense...