4/5-6 Weekend Beyers

[philcski]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Take an 2 turn cheap speed Inner superstar and have him race on a syn track or a fair dirt track and you will get the same result.. A loser... Have him race at hawthorne he is a superstar again.. How is it any different then any other median... Horses for courses always applies

Don't disagree about the inner, as stated before... love this time in NY when they first come off the inner for the reasons you've given.

Be nice to my guy Drugs though, he actually has a job (writer for a newspaper) which is a much better job than mine.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

You have this thing against frontrunners which I don't understand. Having an advantage in the lead is NOT unique to thoroughbred dirt racing- how many humans win sprints when they break in the back of the pack? Or swimmers going 100 meters? Not many, and from an energy expenditure perspective a 6F horse race is akin to humans sprinting 100 meters. An additional benefit of running up front is you're guaranteed a clear path, which is not a hinderance in human sprint races as lanes are defined. A third benefit in cheaper/maiden races is the mentality of horses- they are, by nature, pack animals. Many of them don't get trained well enough to learn how to pass another one [this does not apply to top class or older horses].

While I don't disagree with your analysis of the Aqueduct inner, I don't understand why you continue to fight it. Betting closers and outside posts on the inner is a quick trip to the poor house- so why not embrace rather than fight?

Sprinters, in track events, run in INDIVIDUAL lanes-- thus drafting doesn't come into play. Put horses in individual lanes, without kickback and tight spots, and you might see a different type of racing.

Swimmers really don't go fast enough YET they do DRAFT, to their advantage, by coming over as far as possible in their lane ---guess you're not paying attention to the commentators

Get on your bike and experiment

You really are misinformed on the subject

I don't bet closers on the inner. I don't bet the inner. My beef with the AQU in the winter is that NYRA makes no effort to ensure a fair track. This is fine in bush tracks but in NY?

My running style preference really is not the issue, however. It's the repeated bashing of POLY as being something other than representative of what racing should be that gets to me. Dirt racing does things ASS backwards; it's contrary to natural laws. You guys can fight this all you want but sooner or later you need to broaden your scope of the game.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Sprinters, in track events, run in INDIVIDUAL lanes-- thus drafting doesn't come into play. Put horses in individual lanes, without kickback and tight spots, and you might see a different type of racing.

Swimmers really don't go fast enough YET they do DRAFT, to their advantage, by coming over as far as possible in their lane ---guess you're not paying attention to the commentators

Get on your bike and experiment

You really are misinformed on the subject

I don't bet closers on the inner. I don't bet the inner. My beef with the AQU in the winter is that NYRA makes no effort to ensure a fair track. This is fine in bush tracks but in NY?

My running style preference really is not the issue, however. It's the repeated bashing of POLY as being something other than representative of what racing should be that gets to me. Dirt racing does things ASS backwards; it's contrary to natural laws. You guys can fight this all you want but sooner or later you need to broaden your scope of the game.

How is top-class horses running 1:14 for 6F and repeatedly stopping representative of what racing should be?

[cmorioles]

My biggest problem with synthetics is that they are taking dirt courses and turning them into turf courses. We already have turf racing, and that is all this really stuff really is. TFM likes turf racing, so of course he likes synthetic courses.

While drafting might play a small role, it is more about the properties of the surface itself. And for about the zillionith time, just because somebody doesn't like the racing on fake stuff doesn't mean they don't know how to bet it or how to interpret results. It is possible they just find it extremely boring where nothing happens until the end. About the only thing worth watching is the dumbass jockeys that move before they enter the stretch. That is always good for a laugh.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by philcski

Agreed- and I don't think this one has much of a chance either. Was my one winner from Saturday and salvaged a pretty miserable day of betting the tires @ Kee.

War Emblem's win was at Sportsman's Park, yes. I think they paved the track over and made it into auto racing- I remember driving by it a long time ago on the Stevenson Expressway. Looked like a real dump.

You can't see Hawthorne (or Sportsman's when it existed) from the Stevenson Expressway. You've got to exit on Cicero and go thru a beautiful stretch of real estate in Cicero. At least now they've put in a few strip malls near the track. The area was even worse before.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by JJP

You can't see Hawthorne (or Sportsman's when it existed) from the Stevenson Expressway. You've got to exit on Cicero and go thru a beautiful stretch of real estate in Cicero. At least now they've put in a few strip malls near the track. The area was even worse before.

I guess we had gotten off the expressway and gone up Cicero Ave. My mom's best friend lived in Forest Park (now in Wheeling). Don't remember the area around there too well though...

[favoritetrick]

Originally Posted by Kasept

*Illinois Derby (Haw): Recapture the Glory (L. Roussel III/E. Baird) - 102

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

[Baranduin]

I just saw where Eight Belles got a 4- rag for the Fantasy, the best of the 3 year old races this weekend.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Baranduin

I just saw where Eight Belles got a 4- rag for the Fantasy, the best of the 3 year old races this weekend.

She should run in the Derby. She has clearly been the 2nd best 3 year old running this year. Outside Big Brown, she compares favorably with all the others.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

She should run in the Derby. She has clearly been the 2nd best 3 year old running this year. Outside Big Brown, she compares favorably with all the others.

She took most of the stretch and was all out to get by Alina at 8.5f... In a 4 horse race. And bore in to boot.

She should not be running in anything other than the Oaks. And she looks like a bet against there too..

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

She took most of the stretch and was all out to get by Alina at 8.5f... In a 4 horse race. And bore in to boot.

She should not be running in anything other than the Oaks. And she looks like a bet against there too..

I agree, but I would love to see Proud Spell run in the Derby, I think her style would fit the possible pace scenario real well, although I am not sure she is a 10 panel filly

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Kasept

She took most of the stretch and was all out to get by Alina at 8.5f... In a 4 horse race. And bore in to boot.

She should not be running in anything other than the Oaks. And she looks like a bet against there too..

I disagree. She bored in a bit, but what 3 year olds have looked flawless this year?? One that I can tell. Yeah, a 4 horse field in a slow pace that she hopped at the start in which she trailed and still beat a horse who had it her own way on the front, who herself was coming off a 100 Beyer. She's only a bet against in the Oaks because she'll be the favorite by a good margin and perhaps people are simply looking for a price to beat her. So, yeah, a bet agaisnt there. I simply think beating Pure Clan and Alina is beating better competition than any of the males are beating.

Based on what she's done, I think she fits with 98 percent of the horses pointing to the Derby.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

She took most of the stretch and was all out to get by Alina at 8.5f... In a 4 horse race. And bore in to boot.

She should not be running in anything other than the Oaks. And she looks like a bet against there too..

While that is true, Alina absolutely walked up front. It was pretty impressive that she wore her down anyway. That said, I don't see her being a Derby horse at all.

Proud Spell for the Oaks, that poly race means zippo. The other I like romped on Florida Derby day, forget her name.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

While that is true, Alina absolutely walked up front. It was pretty impressive that she wore her down anyway. That said, I don't see her being a Derby horse at all.

Proud Spell for the Oaks, that poly race means zippo. The other I like romped on Florida Derby day, forget her name.

she's all eltish... think that the oaks winner will come out of the Ashland. There will probaly be some value to be had with the slow beyers. Pure Clan could also be the filly to beat in the Oaks. She's been taken out of her preferred running style while racing in small fields at Oaklawn. Only thing is IEAH horses are always extremely overbet.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Proud Spell for the Oaks, that poly race means zippo. The other I like romped on Florida Derby day, forget her name.

I'm with you- Proud Spell and She's All Eltish

[slotdirt]

Did anybody see Crist's DRF article comparing the Wood to the Santa Anita Derby and completely disagree with it?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Did anybody see Crist's DRF article comparing the Wood to the Santa Anita Derby and completely disagree with it?

*Raises hand*

[slotdirt]

So it wasn't just me. I think Crist is as good and astute a handicapper as there is out there, but I just don't get his point in this particular instance.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Did anybody see Crist's DRF article comparing the Wood to the Santa Anita Derby and completely disagree with it?

Read it and agree 100% with Crist.

In addition to the insanely fast early/brutally slow late aspect of the Wood playing into the conclusion and figures, there is the germane matter of the surface at Aqueduct Saturday which route runners passed over twice (frontstretch)... Pat Kelly and I talked Tuesday evening extensively about the track and he thinks it played a big role in the way the race 'looked'. I would caution Derby players to NOT dismiss the top pair from the Wood out of hand heading to Louisville. Their efforts were strong, and on top of already having established class in their favor, the fitness level of both will be greatly enhanced by Saturday going forward.

[slotdirt]

I like War Pass, and I would even consider myself somewhat of a fan of the horse, but I just don't see how the Wood is going to be a key race when looking at the Derby. I respect the opinions of Steve Crist and our friend Kasept, but I just can't see it.