Would the Travers get more entries if Run On Sept 1

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Really, so if Street Sense was not in the race do you think they would have run in it?

I don't. Curlin has already beat Street Sense and I do think they chose the Haskell because of where the Classic will be this year.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Really, so if Street Sense was not in the race do you think they would have run in it?

I think they would have run in it if the Breeder's Cup were held anywhere other than Monmouth this year. I agree with Nicole, Curlin has already beat SS, I serioulsy doubt they were afraid of him. Personally, I think that Curlin is a better horse than SS anyway. I also don't think that TP is afraid to run any of his top horses against anyone. Curlin and SS ran in the Haskell to take advantage of getting a race over that track prior to the Breeder's Cup. Just look at what the Haskell has drawn in the last few years. Roman Ruler was a nice horse, but there were better 3 year olds and no other top 3 year olds in the Haskell that year to the best of my memory, Park Avenue Ball, I think was one of the runners, hardly a top horse that year. Lionheart was a nice horse, but was no Birdstone. While Rock Hard Ten was in it that year, the second place finisher was a former claimer at Monmouth whose name escapes me right now, who ended up back in the claiming ranks. The fact that the Haskell got a better field this year had nothing to do with ducking SS.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by pointman

I think they would have run in it if the Breeder's Cup were held anywhere other than Monmouth this year. I agree with Nicole, Curlin has already beat SS, I serioulsy doubt they were afraid of him. Personally, I think that Curlin is a better horse than SS anyway. I also don't think that TP is afraid to run any of his top horses against anyone. Curlin and SS ran in the Haskell to take advantage of getting a race over that track prior to the Breeder's Cup. Just look at what the Haskell has drawn in the last few years. Roman Ruler was a nice horse, but there were better 3 year olds and no other top 3 year olds in the Haskell that year to the best of my memory, Park Avenue Ball, I think was one of the runners, hardly a top horse that year. Lionheart was a nice horse, but was no Birdstone. While Rock Hard Ten was in it that year, the second place finisher was a former claimer at Monmouth whose name escapes me right now, who ended up back in the claiming ranks. The fact that the Haskell got a better field this year had nothing to do with ducking SS.

My Snookie's Boy?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

My Snookie's Boy?

Great call, that is who I was referring to.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I disagree on many fronts. Pletcher ran zero horses in the Preakness and only 1 in the Belmont, after Street Sense had declared out. He ran 1 in the Dandy against SS and took his other 3 year olds to mountaineer and Monmouth. Then after the Dandy, he decides none of his 3 year olds will run in the Travers, yet he ran 2 on Monday in the PA Derby. Seems like he is avoiding something.

He's avoiding that dreaded only 3 weeks between a race curse. As we all know a horse can not come back in 3 weeks time.

[pointman]

Fair points Hoss, however, I think Pletcher is a pretty realistic trainer on where he places his horses. Much like Flower Alley, I believe that he realized after the Derby that the horse needed some more maturity and that is why AGS and his others did not run in the Preakness. I see AGS progressing a lot like Flower Alley did and the ones he put in the PA Derby were a more realistic spot for them. However, I do believe that AGS went to Monmouth to take advantage of getting a Grade I race over a track where the BC will be held later this year. Frankly, I am not sure SS could have beat AGS on Haskell day the way AGS ran. As far as Rags, I think it was the prospect of running against the clear top 3 year olds at the time, HS, Curlin and SS, particularly when her racing style is similar to that of both Curlin and SS. I think she probably would have gone is SS ran and Curlin did not, I don't get a sense that SS was the particular horse he was ducking. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that AGS and Curlin were ducking SS.

Also, don't forget that Curlin ran in the Belmont and SS did not. SS had the break before the Jim Dandy, Curlin was laid off until the Haskell. The Dandy, if I am correct, was probably not enough of a layoff for Curlin whereas the Haskell fell at about the right time.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I disagree on many fronts. Pletcher ran zero horses in the Preakness and only 1 in the Belmont, after Street Sense had declared out. He ran 1 in the Dandy against SS and took his other 3 year olds to mountaineer and Monmouth. Then after the Dandy, he decides none of his 3 year olds will run in the Travers, yet he ran 2 on Monday in the PA Derby. Seems like he is avoiding something.

Pletcher ran Circular Quay and King of the Roxy in the Preakness. It's pretty easy to forget them though given they both ran horribly.

NT

[pointman]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Pletcher ran Circular Quay and King of the Roxy in the Preakness. It's pretty easy to forget them though given they both ran horribly.

NT

Good point, I did forget that they went in the Preakness.

[Bobby Fischer]

Slow travers

Borel says he was just racing to win , not racing the clock...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by boswd

whether Pletcher was dodgin SS is up for debate but he did say he just felt that the 20 between The Haskell and The Travers is just too short and would have been rushing him back into training and with the BC as the major goal that wouldn't have been an ideal situation.

That isn't the first time we've heard this, Tagg said that about running Funny Cide though he was going too, Baffert mentioned it when talking about Point Given. It has been mentioned quite a few times that they don't like the spacing between those two races.

but how many go for the big payday in the haskell, and then have a ready-made excuse NOT to go to the travers? hell, worked out for AGS's connections, with a huge stud deal to go with the gr 1 win...that way, hefty check, and don't diss the 'fourth classic' which is having a harder time staying just that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I can't believe that you are suggesting that the date of the Travers be moved. How about moving the dates of all the other races? The Travers is the oldest Thoroughbred horse race in the United States.

you will find that many races, including the ky derby and preakness, have had a variety of dates that they've been run over the last 100-odd years. also, think back to the glory days of hialeah for instance... who would have thought back then that there would be no more flamingo stakes? things change.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Bluegrass Cat used the Haskell as a prep for the Travers last year.

against todds better judgement...owners pushed for that, and a faceoff with bernardini. turned out to be bluegrass cats last race. and no doubt todd felt he was right all along, and didn't want to do this year what he really didn't want to do last year.

i disagree tho that one was a prep for the other. but he ran well in the first, and everyone thought he had a legit shot to test the future 3 yo champ in the second. took him and todd out of their game.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you will find that many races, including the ky derby and preakness, have had a variety of dates that they've been run over the last 100-odd years. also, think back to the glory days of hialeah for instance... who would have thought back then that there would be no more flamingo stakes? things change.

You are correct about that, but I see no reason to change the date of the Travers. If it were moved a week later, then it would be too close to the JCGC. Obviously, the BC has changed the landscape for 3YO's. I just can't agree that AGS, and especially Curlin, were ducking SS.

[Danzig]

pletcher is no dummy, and has made quite a fortune for himself and his owners by properly placing his many horses. he will put them in the best spot for a check, a graded win, and for future deals--that worked perfectly for him and others with any given saturday. call it what you will, or not, but it wouldn't be the first time he ducked a horse. look at the belmont, he didn't duck any one horse, but certainly was NOT going to have one of his horses face off with the top three finishers from the derby. he planned for the haskell, and it paid off nicely for him. had street sense declared from the travers, he may well have waited a week for that rather than go in the haskell. of course that's all speculation.
but i have NO doubt, had street sense skipped the travers (which was a distinct possibility) that he would have had a horse in there.
as for the jcgc, there are other opportunities to face older horses. that race imo isn't as big a deterrent as the haskell as far as getting a good field for the travers.

[saratogabrit]

The date of the Travers will never be changed to the closing weekend as the number of NYRA staff drops day by day after the Travers as most of the college kids head back to school and a lot of the High School kids take the closing weekend off to have a break before school begins.

I believe the Chamber of Commerce says that capacity in the town is reached only at Travers weekend and is about 130,000 which includes residents' (28,000 population), 38,000 or so at the track-a fair number of whom will be one of the locals and so at least 65,000+ tourists milling around town.

[Pedigree Ann]

The Travers is at a classic distance, 10f; the Haskell is at a miler distance, 9f. There are a lot of decent milers who can stretch to 9f and win, but very few of the class to stretch out to 10f against top stayers. With the preponderance of miler-breds in the breed today (and potential stallion managers afraid that their stallion will be tabbed a 'plodder' if they win too many longer races). the appeal of a 9f race for the same purse is clear.