Nice win by Flashy Bull

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Linny

Sec was sold BEFORE the TC not after. The boom in stud values traces to the early 80's and the opening up of the international market. No one horse or human is responsible but lets face it, since 2000, how many of the "best" 3yo colts have run on at four, at all? Tiznow did, but honestly with his breeding, no one was screaming for him, even after his BC win. Similarly Albert the Great. Of the "classic" colts most retired w/out even finishing their 3yo campaigns. I am not implying that colts like Point Given, FuPeg or Afleet Alex and Smarty Jones were "horses for the ages" but they were leaders in their class who could have provided top quality racing in the 4up division. PG, Alex and Smarty all retired with "injuries" that did NOT preclude racing again.
At some point in the 80's established, successful racehorses with desireable breeding became to valuable to race.

We can only hope that the best colts of the next few years will actually be geldings, or at best modestly bred entire males. It's the best shot we'll have at high class racing for older horses.

Don't you think that horses like those you mention are most likely going to add to the problem with the breed? Horses that can't even finish their 3YO campaigns are supposed to produce the next crop of horses? The durability of the breed is already in serious jeopardy. Now throw these horses into the mix, that have less than 15 starts (just throwing a general number out there) in their career, and chances are the durability will be weakened even more. Point Given - 13 starts, Smarty Jones - 9 starts, Afleet Alex - 12 starts. Hell, Teuflesberg raced 11 times as a 2YO. At least he seems a like durable animal.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Here's a question.......where did it really start? I mean, we used to have good horses, with at least reasonable regularity. Now, it's just an absolute farce.......a masquarade ball if you will. NW3Xs going to the ball dressed as Grade 1 winners

If you believe Jerry Brown......the opposite is happening.

It would be really lovely if he made a cameo here on this specific topic.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'll give him a call.

[Indian Charlie]

robert sangster

[King Glorious]

This is why I like this forum. There are more actual horsepeople on here that know the game than just a bunch of people that like them cause they are so pretty. I've been bringing up this topic for years now. I remember when Eddington won the Pimlico Special and it just sickened me. The only reason he won it was because every single horse that SHOULD have been there and WOULD have been there had this been the late 80's to the late 90's.....was gone. Either they were retired, injured, or just resting. Yet, he won it and everyone thought all of a sudden that this made him a good horse. U try to tell some people that just because Flashy Bull or Colonial Colony won this race doesn't make them a legit grade one horse and they'll argue that it does. To me, a legitimate grade one horse is one that u could drop into any era and they would be competitive with just about any other horse.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

To me, a legitimate grade one horse is one that u could drop into any era and they would be competitive with just about any other horse.

I knew if I hung in there, and slogged through your insane posts, I would eventually uncover a gem.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If you believe Jerry Brown......the opposite is happening.

It would be really lovely if he made a cameo here on this specific topic.

an absolutely preposterous position

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Entertaining never-the-less

[miraja2]

Man you guys are really hard on poor old Flashy. Sure he had a really good trip, but did you see the way he moved past a rabbit, a Hawthorne horse, and a need-the-lead horse that didn't have the lead? What a move!! Then he managed to break 13 seconds for the final furlong! What a superstar!

Although his victory may be a bad sign for the sport, it is certainly a good thing for us as handicappers. He is now coming off of 4 straight victories, which means that even if they run him in a legitimate G1 (especially if it is at 10f) he may receive some play at the windows. That is good for us.

[Cajungator26]

Didn't Jerry Bailey say that Eddington was one of the most talented horses he ever rode?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Man you guys are really hard on poor old Flashy. Sure he had a really good trip, but did you see the way he moved past a rabbit, a Hawthorne horse, and a need-the-lead horse that didn't have the lead? What a move!! Then he managed to break 13 seconds for the final furlong! What a superstar!

Although his victory may be a bad sign for the sport, it is certainly a good thing for us as handicappers. He is now coming off of 4 straight victories, which means that even if they run him in a legitimate G1 (especially if it is at 10f) he may receive some play at the windows. That is good for us.

It would have been worse for the sport had Diamond Stripes won.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

It would have been worse for the sport had Diamond Stripes won.

Please note that I said Flashy Bull's win was a bad sign for the sport, not bad for the sport. That is very different.
There is nothing wrong with Flashy Bull. He is a nice horse that has now won four races in a row. I always like to see these former Triple Crown trail horses do well at ages four and beyond. I just think the fact that he is now a "G1 winner" is a bit of a joke.
Just out of curiosity, why do you think a Diamond Stripes victory would have been so bad? Wouldn't an undefeated 4yo gelding be kind of interesting?

[SentToStud]

I should have said a worse "sign" for the sport I guess.

Like most, I'm not thrilled with what is passing for Grade 1 winners. Diamond Stripes is nice and all that but to see a horse as 2nd favorite in a G 1 race who never ran in a stakes vs older horses is, I think, a worse sign. That's just my opinion.

I'm just a very old man who yearns for the old days when the summer handicap races meant something and the fall weight-for-age races determined the champs.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

It's nice to see another potential BC Classic runner emerge. Nice win.

BC Mile and seventy yards is the goal for this horse. BCC is out of the question.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I should have said a worse "sign" for the sport I guess.

Like most, I'm not thrilled with what is passing for Grade 1 winners. Diamond Stripes is nice and all that but to see a horse as 2nd favorite in a G 1 race who never ran in a stakes vs older horses is, I think, a worse sign. That's just my opinion.

I think I see what you're getting at but I don't quite think this part is relevant. Plenty of horses have been favored or second choices in their initial foray against older horses. Diamond Stripes won his second race, a NW1X, late at Saratoga last summer. I'm not exactly sure which races versus olders he missed while racing and ready.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think I see what you're getting at but I don't quite think this part is relevant. Plenty of horses have been favored or second choices in their initial foray against older horses. Diamond Stripes won his second race, a NW1X, late at Saratoga last summer. I'm not exactly sure which races versus olders he missed while racing and ready.

That's exactly my point. In modern times racing, he missed nothing. The Foster was, I think, the third 9F+ G1 of the year following the Donn and SAH. Pre-Breeders Cup, you would never have seen a horse with his resume prep for a race like this with a single race against n3x competition and come in it arguably worthy of being second choice.

[ArlJim78]

In these times the gap between a sharp improving N3x horse and a competitive GR1 horse is not so large. The ranks are thin at the top.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

In these times the gap between a sharp improving N3x horse and a competitive GR1 horse is not so large. The ranks are thin at the top.

True. Alas, I lament.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

In these times the gap between a sharp improving N3x horse and a competitive GR1 horse is not so large. The ranks are thin at the top.

Ain't that the truth.
You don't need to look any further than the aforementioned Flashy Bull so see it.
On April 18th he won an OC 50k/N2X at Aqu, and less than two months later he won the G1 Stephen Foster. That is strange enough, but what really makes it strange is that he really didn't improve at all over those two months. He ran basically the same race on Saturday that he did in that race in April. In that one his effort was good enough to beat allowance horses by four lengths. Saturday it was good enough to win a G1.

[Bobby Fischer]

that horse got so pumped up over the layoff that they just needed to balance getting into racing shape with maintaining his physical improvements. It's nice to see a 3yo with some base talent be allowed to improve. His was very noticable, although I didn't pay attention until the Preakness day post-parade. He got the right track and opponent to continue to move forward even at nine furlongs that day, but looked like a top animal physically.

At least Flashy Bull made the Foster somewhat decent in terms of adjusted final time. Gomez appeared to have at least been able to make a winning bid and appeared to ride conservatively in spite of having a ton of horse with Magna Graduate. Magna Graduate is no Grade 1 champion, but maybe Gomez let Flashy Bull dominate the top of the stretch.

"When I came off the turn, I thought I had dead aim on (Flashy Bull)," Garrett Gomez said of his view aboard Magna Graduate. "But then (Flashy Bull) kind of kicked on a little more on the inside. My horse had to grind it out. We kind of took him out of his element today, a little further off the pace than usual, to get him to settle."

I guess it is a lot safer to sit back and expect everyone to quit for you going into the turn. Albarado was losing some momentum at the end, but he did a solid job of staying out of that expected speed duel between umphry and wanderin boy without riding passively.