Not the first time this has happened at Louisiana Downs

[whodey17]

Here is a thought--take every losing ticket you have to the teller to check to see if your bet had been transmitted to appropriate track. If your bet wasn't transmitted then maybe you can get your money back.

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Announcements are made, refunds are rewarded.

Bets not getting into host track pools is actually more common than most of us think.

Say Hello to Justice in the State of Louisiana. This poor guy comes on trying to explain the rules in a state that is one of the most backwards in the US. And he has not a flippin clue.

Sir. Please take that money out of the fund of the losing tickets that never made it to the pool... oh yes, you know that pool the track never talks about. What a flippin crock. Absolute stone age sophistication about the betting public. The tracks and this poor Travis assume its the same group of poor addicted people who just need that one home run that never comes.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jpops757

Why didnt they imediately pay the wager. They tried to deter the bettor by refusing to pay when the ticket initally, hoping that the bettor would exeept the excuse. Kinda like a insurance policy that refuses to pay until they are backed into a corner. When did they offer to pay? After the ,so called over zealous reporter reporting the facts. Do you think anyone other than this guy with the winning ticket ever got refunded there money? If you do. I have the next Derby winner in my backyard and will sell him to you for 50 bucks.

What you are asking for is for every teller regardless of the circumstance to pay a ticket that they receive from a customer who is claiming it's a winner. When said teller put this man's ticket into the machine it gave him/her some sort of error message. He was probably then forwarded to the supervisor of that line, the supervisor probably called the mutuels manager, who eventually had to contact the VP of Operations. It is simply not a one-hour process. If you are expecting La Downs, or any track for that matter, to contact every patron who bought a ticket on a particular race where the money didn't make it into the pool and refund them, then I have something to sell you. A lot of times when these wagering hubs go down, and I know because Sam Houston is one for Scientific Games, it takes hours if not days for the system to get back to normal.

I can't speak for anyone who also bought a ticket because there hasn't been a groundbreaking story about that person in the Shreveport Times. I can't imagine Louisiana Downs, as it seems everyone here is so intent on proving, would legitimately attempt to keep people from getting money when they present their tickets. However, they have to present their tickets first. Now, with this information having been made public they can set up a window for refunds on bets made that particular day during the outage. That would be a good-faith effort at keeping everything fair.

NT

[Travis Stone]

To also insinuate that LAD mischievously or knowingly did not honor this gentlemen ticket is a complete fabrication of the facts and is false.

He was refunded his ticket that day and was paid yesterday by the track as a result of the situation.

This is an ultra-rare situation, please don't misinterpret me for saying this happens everyday or even close to that often.

In the event a communication breakdown does occur, the bettors are notified of the situation via announcements.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

What you are asking for is for every teller regardless of the circumstance to pay a ticket that they receive from a customer who is claiming it's a winner. When said teller put this man's ticket into the machine it gave him/her some sort of error message. He was probably then forwarded to the supervisor of that line, the supervisor probably called the mutuels manager, who eventually had to contact the VP of Operations. It is simply not a one-hour process. If you are expecting La Downs, or any track for that matter, to contact every patron who bought a ticket on a particular race where the money didn't make it into the pool and refund them, then I have something to sell you. A lot of times when these wagering hubs go down, and I know because Sam Houston is one for Scientific Games, it takes hours if not days for the system to get back to normal.

I can't speak for anyone who also bought a ticket because there hasn't been a groundbreaking story about that person in the Shreveport Times. I can't imagine Louisiana Downs, as it seems everyone here is so intent on proving, would legitimately attempt to keep people from getting money when they present their tickets. However, they have to present their tickets first. Now, with this information having been made public they can set up a window for refunds on bets made that particular day during the outage. That would be a good-faith effort at keeping everything fair.

NT

If this was the case...

you got a business problem. That is not how to take care of this problem that has surely been discussed before. The track has had to have had irate customers that are wrong about their tickets. And a few that have a legitimate claim. You are a business with customers. Thats all I ever read into the article. Do good business and it does have the time to get to a paper.

So does anybody know where the money goes for winning tickets that are never claimed? Does Louisiana have a rule for where that money goes? Travis? Anyone?

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't understand, the guy went to cash and the clerk said the ticket was a refund, and the guy said " no, I hit " and some of you seem to think the clerk should have said " Oh, OK, here's your money "?

It seems to me that pretty much as soon as the track found out the whole story they paid the guy. Sounds to me as though justice was served and only an overzealous reporter, as was pointed out here, made more of the story than was necessary.

Now, I realize the law as it seems to be written is unfair, and if tracks are accepting any wagers they should be responsible for them, whether or not the money gets transfered into a mutual pool. It's called the risk of doing business. If we bet, and we win, we must get paid. In this case that happened. But, this law needs to both be changed and made more clear.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't understand, the guy went to cash and the clerk said the ticket was a refund, and the guy said " no, I hit " and some of you seem to think the clerk should have said " Oh, OK, here's your money "?

It seems to me that pretty much as soon as the track found out the whole story they paid the guy. Sounds to me as though justice was served and only an overzealous reporter, as was pointed out here, made more of the story than was necessary.

Now, I realize the law as it seems to be written is unfair, and if tracks are accepting any wagers they should be responsible for them, whether or not the money gets transfered into a mutual pool. It's called the risk of doing business. If we bet, and we win, we must get paid. In this case that happened. But, this law needs to both be changed and made more clear.

Sounds to me like the guy went home with his bet repaid. This guy probably does not have a ton of money and they get it to him a day later. He goes home thinkn he is not going to get his money... Thats the problem. That is a business problem that they have had to have encountered before. It got into the paper. You dont let a legit claim like that go home. Thats bad business imo. In fact you tout the fact you had a winner at the very track w/out giving names... ask the customer if they mind announcing they have had a big winner. Surely Harrah's is accustomed to this strategy. I have a diff. mindset about tracks and other betting services on horse races, too much of a Vegas mentality possibly. But that seems to work awfully well. Sounds like they let a customer go home thinkin he was screwed.

So, winning ticket money not claimed? Where does that go? In Louisiana. What is the rule?

[blackthroatedwind]

It's probably state by state but in NY the State gets the uncashed monies.

The guy got paid. Yes, I feel bad about his hassles, and perhaps if he had gone to the right people at the track on that day it would have been straightened out even faster. However, there is absolutely no way you can expect the clerk to have paid him. That's just ridiculous.

Believe me, I'm a bettor, and I sympathize with his plight to an extent, but since he got paid ultimately it is hard to not feel that the right thing was done.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's probably state by state but in NY the State gets the uncashed monies.

The guy got paid. Yes, I feel bad about his hassles, and perhaps if he had gone to the right people at the track on that day it would have been straightened out even faster. However, there is absolutely no way you can expect the clerk to have paid him. That's just ridiculous.

Believe me, I'm a bettor, and I sympathize with his plight to an extent, but since he got paid ultimately it is hard to not feel that the right thing was done.

Absolutely not. No way does the clerk figure that out. But the clerk knows who to send him to. They have to have some customer service. You dont let him go home without clearing it up.

Maybe in NY they dont do things like that. I know I was given an entire mutuel print out about 3 years ago when I questioned a pay out because I had looked at the pool sizes and the odds. I got to meet the head of mutuels at a smaller track. Maybe big operations dont care.

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Sounds to me like the guy went home with his bet repaid. This guy probably does not have a ton of money and they get it to him a day later. He goes home thinkn he is not going to get his money... Thats the problem. That is a business problem that they have had to have encountered before. It got into the paper. You dont let a legit claim like that go home. Thats bad business imo. In fact you tout the fact you had a winner at the very track w/out giving names... ask the customer if they mind announcing they have had a big winner. Surely Harrah's is accustomed to this strategy. I have a diff. mindset about tracks and other betting services on horse races, too much of a Vegas mentality possibly. But that seems to work awfully well. Sounds like they let a customer go home thinkin he was screwed.

So, winning ticket money not claimed? Where does that go? In Louisiana. What is the rule?

In my backward state's general fund. You got me to look it up. I'm not surprised it goes to the general fund, that's our politicians happy fund, lots' of taxes go there too. Hmm guess I'm not too happy with our legislative session this year. Much ado about cockfighting, raising taxes but nothing about how the LRA screwed many of the citizens that were flooded.
Here's the link to the LSRC http://horseracing.la.gov/index.html it's around pages 150 ish.
I didn't see where it said they don't have to pay, but it says something about having to transmit to the host track. I'm glad Harrah's decided to pay him. Good for Harrah's.
Oh and really nice for the guy !

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's probably state by state but in NY the State gets the uncashed monies.

The guy got paid. Yes, I feel bad about his hassles, and perhaps if he had gone to the right people at the track on that day it would have been straightened out even faster. However, there is absolutely no way you can expect the clerk to have paid him. That's just ridiculous.

Believe me, I'm a bettor, and I sympathize with his plight to an extent, but since he got paid ultimately it is hard to not feel that the right thing was done.

I would like to know how much was bet on these affected races and how much was refunded? If this is not an uncommon occurance I would think they would have a policy in effect.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's probably state by state but in NY the State gets the uncashed monies.

The guy got paid. Yes, I feel bad about his hassles, and perhaps if he had gone to the right people at the track on that day it would have been straightened out even faster. However, there is absolutely no way you can expect the clerk to have paid him. That's just ridiculous.

Believe me, I'm a bettor, and I sympathize with his plight to an extent, but since he got paid ultimately it is hard to not feel that the right thing was done.

Andy, the right thing was done, but by rule of law they didn't have to do it. Doesn't that bother you a bit? I'm sure you are far more familiar with the wagering rules then I am, but it was no accident that some piece of **** politician enacted that law (I assume the part about the politician, not the accident).
And I just want to make it clear that this has nothing to do personally with Travis Stone. I think it is quite cool that he is a member here.

Originally Posted by FGFan

In my backward state's general fund. You got me to look it up. I'm not surprised it goes to the general fund, that's our politicians happy fund, lots' of taxes go there too. Hmm guess I'm not too happy with our legislative session this year. Much ado about cockfighting, raising taxes but nothing about how the LRA screwed many of the citizens that were flooded.
Here's the link to the LSRC http://horseracing.la.gov/index.html it's around pages 150 ish.
I didn't see where it said they don't have to pay, but it says something about having to transmit to the host track. I'm glad Harrah's decided to pay him. Good for Harrah's.

Sorry. I dont need to bash Louisiana too bad but my brother-in-law worked in the oil business and he said the payola to Govt. officials in the state was absolutely incredible and accepted. I did not believe this could go on in the U.S. when I heard some of the stories.

I love the drive over I-10 swamps though. I love the green tree frogs. I love all the swamp wildlife. Im serious. Some of the coolest stuff. Now the Yankees up in Shreveport... thats not serious enough wild for me.

[DaTruth]

This gentleman was paid, but the holder of the $100,000+ Pick 6 ticket that I referred to in my original post was not paid, and soon thereafter, the State Racing Commission adopted the rule that Travis referred to. That situation cannot be blamed on Harrah's as the Debartolo Corporation owned LaD at the time.

It is interesting to know that bets not being transmitted to the host pool is more common than we think. I cannot remember one instance where I have reviewed my daily online or telephone wagering records and have seen that I have been refunded a bet for a reason other than a scratch or the races being cancelled.

[saratoga guy]

This story brings up far more questions than whether or not this particular guy got paid in this particular instance.

Such as:

When this happens -- ie, the bets aren't forwarded due to some glitch -- when is that announced? Before the horses cross the finish line? Before the official prices are posted? Or sometime later?

How is this announced? Loudspeaker at the track? What about people who place bets and leave the track? People placing bets at OTBs and leaving? People placing bets at home? How are these people supposed to become aware of this?

This is a subject that goes beyond what happened in this instance, at this track. It's something that should have a common set of rules that are in the best interest of the fans and all tracks, simulcast facilities, and account wagering companies adhere to.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by saratoga guy

This story brings up far more questions than whether or not this particular guy got paid in this particular instance.

Such as:

When this happens -- ie, the bets aren't forwarded due to some glitch -- when is that announced? Before the horses cross the finish line? Before the official prices are posted? Or sometime later?

How is this announced? Loudspeaker at the track? What about people who place bets and leave the track? People placing bets at OTBs and leaving? People placing bets at home? How are these people supposed to become aware of this?

This is a subject that goes beyond what happened in this instance, at this track. It's something that should have a common set of rules that are in the best interest of the fans and all tracks, simulcast facilities, and account wagering companies adhere to.

I agree Harrahs did the right thing with this one winner. How about the action for all the other action on this race?LaD has some rose colered glasses if they think they did the right thing.

Originally Posted by saratoga guy

This story brings up far more questions than whether or not this particular guy got paid in this particular instance.

Such as:

When this happens -- ie, the bets aren't forwarded due to some glitch -- when is that announced? Before the horses cross the finish line? Before the official prices are posted? Or sometime later?

How is this announced? Loudspeaker at the track? What about people who place bets and leave the track? People placing bets at OTBs and leaving? People placing bets at home? How are these people supposed to become aware of this?

This is a subject that goes beyond what happened in this instance, at this track. It's something that should have a common set of rules that are in the best interest of the fans and all tracks, simulcast facilities, and account wagering companies adhere to.

You are asking way too much. You are asking for some standardization in a sport that is fractured in so many ways. Good luck.

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Sorry. I dont need to bash Louisiana too bad but my brother-in-law worked in the oil business and he said the payola to Govt. officials in the state was absolutely incredible and accepted. I did not believe this could go on in the U.S. when I heard some of the stories.

I love the drive over I-10 swamps though. I love the green tree frogs. I love all the swamp wildlife. Im serious. Some of the coolest stuff. Now the Yankees up in Shreveport... thats not serious enough wild for me.

Hey we have the very best politicians that MONEY CAN BUY. They even keep 90,000.00 in the freezer, under FBI investigation and get re-elected. Maybe this belongs in the OT threads. Since Katrina I have lost all of the little faith I did have in our politicians.
But this has brought up a something I never really thought about. On occasion I have not cashed some little win tickets (just kept forgetting to bring them to the track or OTB, like little 2.00 win tickets, never forget my substantial tickets) I don't know where I thought it went but certainly doesn't belong in our states' infamous gen. fund.
And as far as the post about the rule changing when Debartolo co. owned it well as you can see deep pockets get legislation in my state. The average joe has little to no impact. Sad.
I'm going to read more about the rules @ lsrc. I am south LA, so I don't go to LaDowns, I go to the Fairgrounds. But this has brought up some interesting stuff.