Excuses

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Arazi, to me is the greatest horse of all time, but for personal reasons.

I assume it had nothing to do with his eye-catching 17th place to 3rd place in a drop-of-a-hat move as the 4/5 favorite in the '92 Kentucky Derby? It's too bad he didn't make that move unmolested up a live rail, and get to save all the ground....or his comparisons with all the great horses in history might not have died such a swift death on that day.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

saying that a horse still has something to prove to some observers, is not the same thing as saying that the horse hasn't proved a lot already.

you are right, he has proved himself to a large extent, more than most of his class.

But BTW is also right I think, based on the trips he has had there is more to prove. I don't think he was at all denigrating what the horse has accomplished.

No..you are right. And I'm not saying he's ready to be put into the Horse racing Hall of Fame..but sometimes what a horse has already accomplished can get lost in some of these debates.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

No..you are right. And I'm not saying he's ready to be put into the Horse racing Hall of Fame..but sometimes what a horse has already accomplished can get lost in some of these debates.

He's a terrific horse and I'm a fan. But that doesn't mean he has nothing to prove. Hopefully he will prove more and I believe he will.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He's a terrific horse and I'm a fan. But that doesn't mean he has nothing to prove. Hopefully he will prove more and I believe he will.

Agreed..I just hope we see him at Saratoga.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I assume it had nothing to do with his eye-catching 17th place to 3rd place in a drop-of-a-hat move as the 4/5 favorite in the '92 Kentucky Derby? It's too bad he didn't make that move unmolested up a live rail, and get to save all the ground....or his comparisons with all the great horses in history might not have died such a swift death on that day.

everyone has a horse I assume that may have never achieved greatness but in some way affected them greatly. Arazi is one and Bien Bien was the other.

[Zippy Chippy]

Is it by accident or by design that Street Sense seems to get a lot of "perfect trips?" I was listening to ATRAB after the Derby and JJ gave a pretty good explanation of why Street Sense seems to always have a clear path to the front. The strategy for Street Sense is to save ground while waiting to make his late move. By the time Street Sense is ready to make his move, most of the pack has weakened and is drifting away from the rail while going around the far turn. This opens up a path along the rail that Street Sense exploits with his speed and strength.

This strategy seems to put Street Sense in a position to get a clear path to the front. I guess you can call it a "perfect trip," but I think the strategy is making more of a difference than luck. He is deliberately being placed in a position that exploits his acceleration, his speed and his strength. I don't think we can discount his talent simply because he hasn't had to go five-wide when making his move.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's not a question of downgrading Street Sense, per se, because he gets perfect trips, but when you objectively analyze races you have to take into account trips. The bottom line is that things have worked out extraordinarily well for Street Sense in a number of his races. Now, part of this is because he is a closer, but not a plodder, so he has the ability to put himself into races and not necessarily become victimized by slow paces. This sets him apart from, say, a horse like Dynever, who had no natural speed, and was thus constantly victimized. Thus Street Sense can sit six to eight lengths off the lead if the pace isn't as acute as it has been in these previous two races, and still close effectively. However, his trips in both the Derby and Preakness have been picture perfect, both because the paces were strong, and because he was able to navigate smoothly through the field. Some of this is because he is a handy horse who seems comfortable inside of horses, while many are not, but there is no denying that he has been the fortunate recipiant of unusually friendly circumstances.

The bottom line is that this won't always be the case and until Street Sense overcomes a mediocre trip, such as Curlin did in this Preakness, he still has something to prove. At least to objective observers that is.

Andy, very insightful comments. I understand what you are saying and I think you spelled it out extremely well. However, my questioning comes from a different place, perhaps the "other side of the coin" so to speak. With the parts above I highlighted -- from what perspective do we look at this? I mean, are these reasons to so called "downgrade" the horse and his performances? Or, as some look at it, are they positive attributes that should be looked at as all contributing to this being a very, very good horse, who might -- with more -- become a great horse, or at least accomplish "great things?"

To me, a colt, who came back as a 3yo from winning the BC as a 2yo, bucked a major trend, with his preps as well -- who has the ability to put himself into races and not become victimized -- this is a good horse. I think he should be positively complimented for those attributes rather than automatically looking to "downgrade". Now, I know you are not doing that, but I think some/many are.

A colt like this does set himself apart -- that's why we are all waiting for Dynever to win his first decent race, LOL. Sure Dynever was a talented horse, but never did reach the heights of reaching what his talent and potential marked. I am not sure that everyone would consider him a "good horse" so to speak. In my mind, a colt that can close effectively while sitting wherever he is sitting -- that's a very good thing, even more so because he can navigate, and is handy, etc. Those are very good things in my mind.

Now, here is my real question -- do you really call his trip in the Preakness as "picture perfect"

Thanks.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Yes, DrugS is denying that Street Sense's inate talent, which he can't admit is greater than he believed, makes it much easier for him to get these advantageous trips than the average middle to deep closer.

He's a very good horse. That's the bottom line. But, as much as I like him, I would like to see him perform well under adversity. Though, in many ways he did this in the Keeneland Breeder's Futurity. Now I would love to see it at a higher level.

Well, you speak to my comments here, LOL. Excellent point(s).

Eric

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ELA

Well, you speak to my comments here, LOL. Excellent point(s).

Eric

Minus his inclusion of my name in it.

As, he's obviously way too good to read any of my "prolific" posts....and is only making judgements as to what I think based on what he's heard second hand from Stone Grossard.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Minus his inclusion of my name in it.

As, he's obviously way too good to read any of my "prolific" posts....and is only making judgements as to what I think based on what he's heard second hand from Stone Grossard.

I usually go right to the top and ask for Eddie Vedder's interpretations of your posts.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I don't even want to ask who he is.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't even want to ask who he is.

You can be forgiven for not knowing who Stone Gossard is, but not knowing who Eddie Vedder is, especially considering he was constantly playing on my stereo last summer, is pretty sad.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You can be forgiven for not knowing who Stone Gossard is, but not knowing who Eddie Vedder is, especially considering he was constantly playing on my stereo last summer, is pretty sad.

From Chicago, lead singer of Pearl Jam.

Oh yeah, I heard it, LOL.

Eric

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Of all the bad music you had on last summer---I think eventual muslim Kat Stevens "here comes my baby" song took the cake.

Unless you're trying to get laid...there is no excuse at all for having anything by that guy playing.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Of all the bad music you had on last summer---I think eventual muslim Kat Stevens "here comes my baby" song took the cake.

Unless you're trying to get laid...there is no excuse at all for having anything by that guy playing.

LOL. I was always waiting for the big-time party . . . and my invitation of course, LOL.

The worst that could happen was I would be gulity of walking while intoxicated, LOL. I think regardless of my condition I could have made it home. The locks might have been changed, but I would have made it, LOL.

Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Of all the bad music you had on last summer---I think eventual muslim Kat Stevens "here comes my baby" song took the cake.

Unless you're trying to get laid...there is no excuse at all for having anything by that guy playing.

The soundtrack from " Rushmore ", which " Here Comes My Baby " is on, is a great CD.

I am not even going to get into the rest of your post. It's part of my new " Be Nice to DrugS " program.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I am not even going to get into the rest of your post. I've abandoned my old "Unfairly compare every tard poster in the history of the interwebs to DrugS " program.

FTFY

[blackthroatedwind]

Actually, all things considered, in this case your own performance was worthy of any abuse I heaped on you.

YOu know, if Dynever is your shining example maybe you should re-think the analogy.

Lessee: "Street Sense is a lucky horse because Giacomo is a plodder."

OKay, yeah, now I get it. I think.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Don't recall the new owners changing Dynever's name. And he passed a few in the DWC as I recall.

Street Sense should have won the Preakness. If Borel doesn't look back and spends that fraction of a second going to his left hand instead of turning his head, I believe he wins. He certainly did the horse no favors the last 50 yards and a left hand was in order given his move back to the rail habit.

could you please explain this idea in more detail?

i was kinda thinking borel blew the race because he didnt take a crap before the race and that extra 3 ounces probably cost him 3-4 lengths.

i like your theory better though!