Asmussen Suspension

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Sure there are innocuous uses for Mepivicaine, but there are also sinister uses for it such as to nerve-block a horse. That is why it is illegal. For those of you that don't know that means, when you nerve-block a horse, you inject a nerve in the sore area such as the knee or ankle so the horse won't be able to feel anything in the area that is nerve-blocked. Not only is nerve-blocking a horse totally illegal but it is one of the most unethical things you can do. When a horse can't feel anything, this greatly increases the chances of a horse breaking a leg.
I know that some people think that most of these trainers are angels and would never do anything illegal but the truth of the matter is that trainers cheat all the time and the penalties are not severe enough.
For those of you that believe these trainers' innocuous explanations for why their horses tested positive, I have some swamp land I'd like to sell you.

The best way to explain it is this way--a NFL running back twists his knee--he goes to the locker room to get a shot. Next thing you know he comes back out and runs for 2 TDs and 200 yards. After the game he gets an MRI and he has a torn ligament. Huh--how did he not feel the pain?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

These guys are sharp. There is no way they would knowingly administer something that could be caught in a test. It was either a mistake or a false positive. They may be using something on their horses, but it isn't tested for yet.

That's like saying that a multi-millionaire would never cheat on his taxes because he has too much to loose. It's a good argument but it's not true. People lie and cheat all the time even in situations where there is a good chance that they will get caught.
Much in the same way that cheaters are always getting more sophicticated, the testing is getting more sophisticated too. I would imagine that one of the ways guys get nailed is when a new, more sensitive testing method is used. A new test may be able to detect a drug that the old test could not detect.
One of Doug O'Neil's horses just came in above the legal level for bicarbonates. All of his horses are now going to have go to a detention barn. Do you think that he didn't do it?
By the way, when it comes to milkshaking it is usally not a huge secret as to who is doing it. Grooms are not great at keeping secrets. The grooms are at the barn and witness horses being milkshaked. It's not like they don't talk to their friends. You know the old expression that when there's smoke, there's usually fire. That is why every time I've heard rumors about a certain trainer milkshaking, it always turned out to be true. It's hard to keep secrets on the backstretch.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

The best way to explain it is this way--a NFL running back twists his knee--he goes to the locker room to get a shot. Next thing you know he comes back out and runs for 2 TDs and 200 yards. After the game he gets an MRI and he has a torn ligament. Huh--how did he not feel the pain?

With a football player, I think they usually give them a shot of cortisone. That is quite different from a nerve-block. Trainers use cortisone too.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

With a football player, I think they usually give them a shot of cortisone. That is quite different from a nerve-block. Trainers use cortisone too.

Yeah cortisone is the drug. I couldnt remember that. But doesnt it do the same thing as a nerve blocking agent?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

With a football player, I think they usually give them a shot of cortisone. That is quite different from a nerve-block. Trainers use cortisone too.

Rupert,
Pain-killing shots are a way of life in the NFL. Every team, every game. I remember Bettis had to miss a playoff game a cople years ago when a shot in his leg hit the wrong nerve and his entire leg went numb. If they did use nerve-blocking pain killers in the NFL, a lot of games could not be played.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Sure there are innocuous uses for Mepivicaine, but there are also sinister uses for it such as to nerve-block a horse. That is why it is illegal. For those of you that don't know that means, when you nerve-block a horse, you inject a nerve in the sore area such as the knee or ankle so the horse won't be able to feel anything in the area that is nerve-blocked. Not only is nerve-blocking a horse totally illegal but it is one of the most unethical things you can do. When a horse can't feel anything, this greatly increases the chances of a horse breaking a leg.
I know that some people think that most of these trainers are angels and would never do anything illegal but the truth of the matter is that trainers cheat all the time and the penalties are not severe enough.
For those of you that believe these trainers' innocuous explanations for why their horses tested positive, I have some swamp land I'd like to sell you.

I agree.

There aren't too many trainers (especially high profile ones that stand to lose a lot) that won't have a "completely reasonable explanation" when they get a positive. The tendency to not be accountable is rampant.

[SentToStud]

Cortisone itself does not act as a pain-reliever. Cortisone is used to reduce inflammation. It's true that reduced inflammation will often result in reduced pain, but pain relief is not the primary action of cortisone.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Cortisone itself does not act as a pain-reliever. Cortisone is used to reduce inflammation. It's true that reduced inflammation will often result in reduced pain, but pain relief is not the primary action of cortisone.

Aww got cha. That makes sense.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Yeah cortisone is the drug. I couldnt remember that. But doesnt it do the same thing as a nerve blocking agent?

A shot of cortisone is not nearly as severe as a nerve-block. A shot of cortisone can take away pain but it won't make you completely numb. A nerve-block will make you completely numb so you can't feel anything.

[2Hot4TV]

First off I'm not a Doctor or a Vet, But when ever my horses were winning races the Vet bill was pretty high in those months. I would always wonder if a horse is fit to win, then why was the Vet seeing him before and after he raced?

[Scav]

I will tell you guys this...Right now, I have a partially torn calf muscle, if I step on it the wrong way, it shoots a pain all the way to my lower back. the Doc shot me with something yesterday and I could have ran the 40 in 3.9 if I wanted to that is how good I was feeling, not today though, feels like it is going to fall off again....

[PSH]

To the casual racing fan and even the not so casual (which i would put myself in that category) and except for the experts and insiders like Oracle 80, etc. this whole issue about drugs legal and not so legal is both confusing and obviously putting a cloud under the sport....

I, first believed that there was widespread drug abuse when i first came to this board just a few weeks ago amongst the high percentage trainers. It now seems obvious that i am wrong. Trainers like Pletcher, Asmussen, Dutrow are winning at the higher percentages most likely because:

1) They get the better horses (well bred and higher price yearlings, etc.)
2) They are just plain smarter than their peers
3) They go the extra mile and spend an additional $40-$50 per day using the best food and vitamin supplements available.

I guess suspensions like the ones being talked about with Dutrow, Pletcher and now Asmussen are just making this issue more confusing and somewhat unfair by not testing for the real so called "milkshakes" on a national level.

Yes, like baseball there will always be cheaters who are one step above the detectors. Not sure what has to be done, but something should be done to get rid of the real cheaters and make the playing field level for handicappers.

Paul

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by PSH

To the casual racing fan and even the not so casual (which i would put myself in that category) and except for the experts and insiders like Oracle 80, etc. this whole issue about drugs legal and not so legal is both confusing and obviously putting a cloud under the sport....

I, first believed that there was widespread drug abuse when i first came to this board just a few weeks ago amongst the high percentage trainers. It now seems obvious that i am wrong. Trainers like Pletcher, Asmussen, Dutrow are winning at the higher percentages most likely because:

1) They get the better horses (well bred and higher price yearlings, etc.)
2) They are just plain smarter than their peers
3) They go the extra mile and spend an additional $40-$50 per day using the best food and vitamin supplements available.

I guess suspensions like the ones being talked about with Dutrow, Pletcher and now Asmussen are just making this issue more confusing and somewhat unfair by not testing for the real so called "milkshakes" on a national level.

Yes, like baseball there will always be cheaters who are one step above the detectors. Not sure what has to be done, but something should be done to get rid of the real cheaters and make the playing field level for handicappers.

Paul

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that you were wrong about suspecting cheating. I think that if you asked most people in the business, a majority would say that they think many of these top trainers are cheating. Now that doesn't mean that these people are correct. I have no idea whether Pletcher or Dutrow cheat. I can make an educated guess but I can't say with certainty. By the way, I think it partly depends on how you define cheating. If you milkshake a horse the day before a race, it is technically legal as long as the numbers are below the the threshhold when the horse is tested. You can't give a horse anything on race day. If they catch you giving a horse anything on race day you can get in trouble.
I'd rather not talk about any current trainer today because I don't want to offend anyone but let's talk about a trainer from the 1980s. I don't know if you remember thr trainer Oscar Barrera from the 1980s. He passed away several years ago. He would claim a horse for $25,000 and the horse would lose that day. Then he would bring the horse back 5 days later ina stakes race and the horse would win by 5 lengths. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this guy's horses were not improving by natural means. This guy would improve horses by 10 lengths overnight. Nowadays you usually don't see anything quite that extreme but you still see some stuff that is pretty amazing. If it looks too good to be tue, it usually is. However, even if you see a horse improve immensely for a new trainer, you may be correct to assume that some type of drug played a role, but it may very well be a legal drug. The good trainers have the best vets and they make the best use of their vets.

The bottomline here is that the guy is spread out with half a thousand head all across the country, and I GUARANTEE you that he would never have authroized that cheap $10K claiming filly to have any sort of meds that would jeopardize his liscense...PERIOD. She is a ten claimer at Evd and she ran last...it didn't even hep her...this is an obvious mistake by a vet there and now Steve will unfortunatelyt held accountable for it because that is what the rule says...he probably hadn't even seen No End in Sight for several months.

The thing that bothers me the most about this is the suspension that they hung him with - 6 months.....this is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous and it really makes you wonder what the real agendas are behind the EvD stewards....I smell some Cajun cooking that the horsemen down there probably are sending a message that they don't like Steve coming in and stealing all of their money.....a damn shame...

[Rupert Pupkin]

I asked one of my trainers this morning about Mepivicaine and about its uses. He said that if a horse tests positive for the drug, there is no doubt that the horse was given a nerve-block. I asked him if there was even a small chance like even a 5% chance that the drug could have been given for something else such as dental work or something else. He said that there is absolutely no chance of that. He said that Mepivicaine is not usd for dental work. Horses are not like humnas when it comes to dental work. They are not given Novacaine or Mepivicaine. Horses are tranqulized when they get dental work done.
You would have to be very gullible to believe that a Mepivicaine positive was the result of dental work since the drug is not used for dental work.
With regards to Asmussen specifically, I have no idea if he knew what was going on or not. When you have that many horses, that many vets, and that many assistant trainers, you can't be involved with every little detail of what is going on with every horse. It is impossible. However, it is the trainer's responsibility to make it very clear to his assistants and his vets what it alright and what is not alright. If you use aggressive vets and give them carte-blanche to do whatever they think is necessary, then this type of thing can happen. Many of these trainers have a sort of "don't ask/don't tell" policy with their vets. They trust their vets to take care of problems and they don't ask them how they do it.